Book of James

I think you have missed some of the points that have been made here. We believe works come with grace, and they are important, but should never be more important than grace itself. Grace is the most important thing, because only through God's grace will we ever get into heaven, only when we accept Jesus Christ as our lord and savior do we get to go to heaven. Works will come after we our saved. We just do not like how a lot of people have come here and said the without works you do not get into heaven, when the truth of the matter is no one gets into heaven without accepting Jesus Christ as their lord and Savior.

Author	Comment
DeadPan Private Posts: 3 (12/21/02 7:14 am) Reply	Book of James I wonder. From the viewpoints I see expressed, it seems alot of you only think the 'grace' parts in the bible are important..I don't know for sure, since I have not read any expression of the articles of your faith, or principles that you believe in, in your church. However, since so many do seem to believe that 'works' are unnecessary, do we ignore the book of James? It talks alot about works, and especially about how can a man have works without faith, and faith without works. If one thinks about it, you have no faith if you do not believe in Christ, and if you do not believe in Christ, you cannot partake of his graceful mercy. But if you have faith, and no works, your faith is dead. I'm just paraphrasing alot of James here anyway, I just thought I'd invoke a discussion, but I have a fuzzy understanding of the many faiths here, and I wish to understand clearly is all.
RshScks Sergeant Major Posts: 411 (12/21/02 8:12 am) Reply	I think you have missed I think you have missed some of the points that have been made here. We believe works come with grace, and they are important, but should never be more important than grace itself. Grace is the most important thing, because only through God's grace will we ever get into heaven, only when we accept Jesus Christ as our lord and savior do we get to go to heaven. Works will come after we our saved. We just do not like how a lot of people have come here and said the without works you do not get into heaven, when the truth of the matter is no one gets into heaven without accepting Jesus Christ as their lord and Savior.
SirNukes Cow Master Posts: 2017 (12/21/02 2:30 pm) Reply	Re: I think you have missed As I recall, I was going off on grace in a few posts there, so I suppose I should respond as well. Sorry if I end up repeating rshscks on a few points. The problem is that, while it is not wrong to say that a person who has faith will show that faith in their lives (works), it is quite unwise and dangerous to make that your focus, as many churches have done. People love to be in control of their lives. If you allow them the opportunity, most will twist "faith leads to works" into "works lead to faith" (where 'faith' is synonomous with 'salvation'), for the latter gives them the control. Though 'a' entails 'b', 'b' does not entail 'a,' but a lot of people will ignore that. Consider this: -If you stress faith and works together, the best that can happen is someone will choose to have faith (which leads to works), and the worst that can happen is someone will choose to have works (which does not lead to faith), thinking they have accepted your message. -If you stress grace alone, the best that can happen is someone will choose to have faith, and the worst that can happen is someone will simply not accept your message. If you say works and faith go together, you won't be wrong in the intellectual sense, but you will be wrong in how you are going about things. You are greatly increasing misunderstanding, and for no benefit to anyone. It's sorta like when a boy (applies to most anyone, btw), if someone is angry with him for not telling them something important, sticks to the claim that he did tell the other person whatever it is, but fails to mention that he said it really low, under his breath, so that the other person couldn't hear. He's technically right, but he's still decieving the other person. Hopefully, I've made my position a bit clearer. It's by grace we are saved, and it's because of grace that we do any works. To say, or simply let people think you are saying, that works lead to salvation is to oppose the life of Christ and wisdom of God; for, by God's wisdom, he sent Christ to do the work for us that is necissary for salvation, leaving us free to recieve grace. The works that follow grace have nothing to do with getting into heaven, and should not be tied into the gospel at all. They are seperate, and rather meaningless as far as salvation goes. -Brent
DeadPan Private Posts: 4 (12/21/02 5:28 pm) Reply	I apologize If you think I am here to harass or force my ideas on anyone. I am simply expressing what I understand of certain scriptures, by no means do I claim to be an expert on them. So I simply ask for scriptures that back up that Grace is all we need care about. I find it hard to believe, for there is much that is equally important as grace, otherwise the Bible would not be so big as it is.
SirNukes Cow Master Posts: 2018 (12/21/02 7:15 pm) Reply	Re: I apologize No apology needed. And I apologize for making it seem like you needed to apologize. Yes, I know there's a lot to be said concerning how to live a Christian life, but I feel it starts 100% with grace, and everything following only matters once grace has been accepted. I also take the stance that Christians are saved and nothing they do really matters concerning that salvation. However, I don't claim for a second that there's not a lot of good to still be done on this world. I know you haven't been around this forum for long, but in the past I have made a few scattered posts here and there encouraging people to go out and witness (or, rather, to take opportunities as they come up). I don't mean to toot my own horn, but I'm just saying that I'm not of the opinion that once a person becomes a Christian, they shouldn't do good deeds. They by all means should, but for the reason that good deeds are good, not because they ensure our place in heaven or gauruntee our faith. What I'm saying is that I can't give you passages saying we need only care about grace. I can give plenty that say we are saved by grace, and that our own works don't matter at all in that regard. But our works do still matter in their own fashion. Well, I'm not sure if I cleared things up well. If you could be more specific, that would help. -Brent
DeadPan Private Posts: 5 (12/25/02 4:09 am) Reply	Heh I always thought become a Disciple of Christ started with repentance. I guess that's just me. So here's another discussion topic, how do we define 'works' as is mentioned in the bible?

The Faithful Knights of Christ > Christian Discussion > Book of James
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