Brainwashing: Could you be a victim?

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The Faithful Knights of Christ > Christian Discussion > Brainwashing: Could you be a victim?
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NUHERE Sergeant Posts: 160 (8/16/02 6:12 pm) Reply	Brainwashing: Could you be a victim? Here is an interesting article I came across that might shed light as to why you might believe as you do. I might also say that anytime anyone out there wants to post on another subject feel free. I can't believe I am the only one here that has an opinion. Well happy reading. www.dcd.net/NBP/persuasn.html
NUHERE Sergeant Posts: 171 (8/18/02 9:57 am) Reply	brain This really is good article and its not insulting in anyway but it may open your eyes.
Unfallen Angel Private First Class Posts: 11 (8/19/02 12:37 pm) Reply	Aiight Well, I read it. Many Christians have problems with "Charismatic" churches like the ones mentioned in the article for the same reasons. The majority of us realize that most of what goes on is due to the ambient "energy" in the atmosphere - like in a rock concert. I can honestly say that most churches are not like that - Mine rarely has a beat to the music, unless you count a single guitar or an organ. Also, I have never heard a sermon anywhere that could be considered "Hellfire and Brimstone." I am a Christian not out of fear, but because God called me to Him, near the end of a small gathering (10-15 people) and potluck in our church, during which there was no Christian discussion except maybe a prayer before we ate. It was not in a spectacular dazzling church, there was no music, I was not meditating. I was in a 100% normal state of consciousness. I simply felt compelled to go and lay myself before the altar in the sanctuary, which I find interesting in retrospect because at the time I had no idea what the significance of that act was. I did suddenly understand, however, that to accept the Spirit I felt all around me and in me, I would need to start putting Him first in my life. Since then, I have found out that a big part of being a Christian is not about rules, or good deeds, or religion at all. Christianity isn't a religion, because you don't have to do anything. All other religions follow the pattern of do good deeds, don't be bad, and you go to heaven. Christianity is: We all screw up, but God loves us so much He found a way to overlook that. All we need to do is trust in Him. I'd say that's a pretty big difference. Christianity is a relationship. When I pray, surely it is sometimes to a God Most High whom I cannot fully comprehend. But sometimes it is to a man, with a face, who died for me. And for you. Does my brain enter a different state when I pray? Probably. Is it possible that God built that capability into us when he designed us? Certainly. A major theme of our world's story has been something taking what is good and natural, and twisting it to accomplish evil. The examples of this are far too numerous and varied to go into, but I'm sure that at least the statement rings true to you, does it not? By the way, Nuhere, what is your real name? I would simply like to know who I am talking to. In Jesus Name, Daniel Hedin I took the What Mythological Creature Are you? test by !
NUHERE Sergeant Posts: 178 (8/19/02 5:15 pm) Reply	brainwashed Un: "Christianity isn't a religion, because you don't have to do anything." Really? You don't have to believe without a shadow of a doubt that the stories are real even thought you have no evidence they are true? "We all screw up, but God loves us so much He found a way to overlook that." Then he doesn't mind people like me. "Does my brain enter a different state when I pray? Probably. Is it possible that God built that capability into us when he designed us? Certainly." Your brain may enter a different state but it is called meditation. It occurs in all people, of all faiths and no faiths when and if they meditate. It is part of the biological make up of the body. Science can actually look at the brain and circulation during these times and note the change. It is a stretch to say God made you this way. It just is. "A major theme of our world's story has been something taking what is good and natural, and twisting it to accomplish evil." I don't doubt your claims of evil in the world but if you do the research most of the violence has occurred over religous issues. Even today there are over forty wars raging and at the root is religion. If there were no religion just think of the peace that would break out.
RedClaw Posts: 1321 (8/30/02 10:31 pm) Reply	Re: brainwashed "You don't have to believe without a shadow of a doubt that the stories are real even thought you have no evidence they are true?" Are you sure about this statement? You know, I think you've been brainwashed by one to many atheists. RedClaw/JJ What Would Jesus Do? Member of -=DoS-United=- "StarCraft is fun" - me
NUHERE Staff Sergeant Posts: 246 (8/31/02 6:55 pm) Reply	brainwashing -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You don't have to believe without a shadow of a doubt that the stories are real even thought you have no evidence they are true?" Nuhere Are you sure about this statement? Redclaw You tell me. That was a question. Perhaps you didn't understand it. You said that Christianity required nothing. I said in question form that you must believe the stories(in the bible) even though you have no evidence that they are true. I think the bible is very clear on this matter. It is a catch 22 scenario. You must believe in spite of the fact there is no evidence and to doubt you are not a true Christian. Blessed are they that believe though have not seen. Why there is virtue in this I will never understand.
RedClaw Posts: 1344 (8/31/02 10:54 pm) Reply	Re: brainwashing I find it fairly easy to conclude that not everything in the Bible is supposed to have happened, for example, the parables that Christ taught were MEANT to be stories. If other things in the Bible were proven to be stories, it doesn't smash Christianity's premis like you want it to. RedClaw/JJ What Would Jesus Do? Member of -=DoS-United=- "StarCraft is fun" - me
NUHERE Staff Sergeant Posts: 250 (9/1/02 6:47 am) Reply	brainwashing "I find it fairly easy to conclude that not everything in the Bible is supposed to have happened, for example, the parables that Christ taught were MEANT to be stories. If other things in the Bible were proven to be stories, it doesn't smash Christianity's premis like you want it to." Upon what does Christianity stand or fall in your eyes.What miraculous events are you willing to accept as having happened?
RedClaw Posts: 1350 (9/1/02 9:15 am) Reply	Re: brainwashing The ones that never started with "so here is a fictional story about such and such a miracle"..... RedClaw/JJ What Would Jesus Do? Member of -=DoS-United=- "StarCraft is fun" - me
Casalen Private Posts: 8 (9/2/02 10:50 pm) Reply	Re: brainwashing I've seen these tactics and noticed many many times... it's my main argument against the rank-based structure of some churches. I've also seen studies about the percussion-based mind- after about five minutes of a steady beat, many reported almost ecstacy-type trances. It's not just some churches, and not always brainwashing- many pagan groups, such as my own, use it simply to help reach the meditative state. It doesn't work well for brainwashing. African Tribes, Native Americans, and so forth do the same. On a similar subject, what about culture? My parents weren't religious, no one I knew was- yet I grew up as a Christian. Why? Because the people who made TV shows knew it was the most "socially acceptable" (and that witches were evil). My teachers were Christian- and because I heard so much, I didn't even think about it. It's widespread in every culture... well, I could probably think of more to say but I won't. With every kill I grow wiser, and with added wisdom I grow stronger.
Unfallen Angel Lance Corporal Posts: 62 (9/3/02 12:20 am) Reply	Re: brainwashing The church was not meant to have nearly as much rank as it has today, that is for sure. These days, it seems like the average person has almost no responsibility other than to show up on sunday mornings. Ideally, each person upheld all the rest, though of course there were pastors and probably elders. The difference is, you didn't have a few people doing everything and the rest just being there, see? As to the bible, you don't need to believe the stories to be a christian. If you never read the bible, you can still be saved, it's all about a relationship after all, not a set of laws. On the other hand, there is trouble when you hear the stories and then choose to not believe them. That's where you come in Nu. Testing new sig, - - Unfallen I took the What Mythological Creature Are you? test by !
RedClaw Posts: 1383 (9/3/02 1:57 pm) Reply	Re: brainwashing "It's widespread in every culture..." No it isn't.... RedClaw/JJ What Would Jesus Do? Member of -=DoS-United=- "StarCraft is fun" - me
Casalen Private Posts: 10 (9/4/02 12:05 am) Reply	Re: brainwashing If an african child is raised with superstition, he has beliefs instilled. If a native american is always told that white men suck then he'll believe it. If a white man is always told that he was meant to have the land, he'll probably believe it. I was talking about a much broader aspect- everything. With every kill I grow wiser, and with added wisdom I grow stronger. Edited by: Casalen at: 9/4/02 12:07:24 am
RedClaw Posts: 1386 (9/4/02 3:00 pm) Reply	Re: brainwashing So? People can think. If they still think that what they learned early on is relevant I don't see the problem with it. RedClaw/JJ What Would Jesus Do? Member of -=DoS-United=- "StarCraft is fun" - me
NUHERE Gunnery Sergeant Posts: 282 (9/6/02 7:50 pm) Reply	brainwashing "As to the bible, you don't need to believe the stories to be a christian. If you never read the bible, you can still be saved, it's all about a relationship after all, not a set of laws" If you don't believe the stories where is your faith? If the stories are false then what else is false? You want to be saved from what? Relationships are two way. When does God speak to you and can others hear him (her)? If not, why? If you say only you can hear him why should I believe you? Can you tell me something that he has told you that only he knows so I can know he exists?
RedClaw Posts: 1397 (9/6/02 9:03 pm) Reply	Re: brainwashing Here we go again. Get a dictionary and look up Christianity for me..... RedClaw/JJ What Would Jesus Do? Member of -=DoS-United=- "StarCraft is fun" - me
NUHERE Gunnery Sergeant Posts: 295 (9/7/02 6:19 am) Reply	brainwashing "Here we go again. Get a dictionary and look up Christianity for me..... " I know what Christianity is. Are you going to open up and answer those questions I asked?
RedClaw Posts: 1410 (9/7/02 10:31 am) Reply	Re: brainwashing This is becoming irritating... "If you don't believe the stories where is your faith?" Faith in what? Stories or Christ? "If the stories are false then what else is false?" A few scientiffic theories may be incorrect in this day and age...but they work so well!!!! If they are proven false than I guess science in it's entirety comes into question. "You want to be saved from what?" This question is rediculous. You know what we mean when we say "saved" so don't start this. "When does God speak to you and can others hear him (her)? If not, why? If you say only you can hear him why should I believe you? Can you tell me something that he has told you that only he knows so I can know he exists?" Can you demonstrate to me that every element of the theory of evolution is 100%, rock solid, undeniably correct? Until then, I'll play your game. RedClaw/JJ What Would Jesus Do? Member of -=DoS-United=- "StarCraft is fun" - me
NUHERE First Sergeant Posts: 302 (9/8/02 7:16 am) Reply	brainwashing RedClaw "If you don't believe the stories where is your faith?" Faith in what? Stories or Christ? Both "A few scientiffic theories may be incorrect in this day and age...but they work so well!!!! If they are proven false than I guess science in it's entirety comes into question." Why is that? The theory may be proven wrong but that doesn't negate science as a whole. The problem with Christianity is that none of it is provable. You lack historical evidence, you ask that one believe in the supernatural, angels , devils, everlasting life, in both heaven and hell all of which has no basis for evidence. "You want to be saved from what?"Nu "This question is rediculous. You know what we mean when we say "saved" so don't start this." It is not ridiculous to ask this question. Who told you that you needed to be saved and why and from what? "When does God speak to you and can others hear him (her)? If not, why? If you say only you can hear him why should I believe you? Can you tell me something that he has told you that only he knows so I can know he exists?"nu "Can you demonstrate to me that every element of the theory of evolution is 100%, rock solid, undeniably correct? Until then, I'll play your game." You are comparing apples and oranges again and at the same time changing the subject. Evolution is coming to a consensus based on known real evidence. Can you show me and others how and when God speaks to you and can you prove it or is it something you just feel in your heart?
RedClaw Posts: 1421 (9/8/02 10:28 am) Reply	Re: brainwashing "The problem with Christianity is that none of it is provable. You lack historical evidence, you ask that one believe in the supernatural, angels , devils, everlasting life, in both heaven and hell all of which has no basis for evidence." Correction, YOU think we lack evidence because you've been looking exclusively at atheist propoganda, and when Nukes owns you with the facts you deny their validity. Sorry, but when I couple those two facts you've lost almost every shred of credibility. "It is not ridiculous to ask this question. Who told you that you needed to be saved and why and from what?" You know full well what the term "saved" means and how and why Christians use it. You said you've read the Bible several times, so if this is true I refuse to answer such a basic question that someone with your qualifications should easily know the answer to. "You are comparing apples and oranges again and at the same time changing the subject. Evolution is coming to a consensus based on known real evidence." Correction, I'm comparing my faith to your faith, but the difference is you think that your faith has been proven, when this is simply not the case. Sorry, but someone has to tell you the evolution is still a theory, and there are many elements which prevent it from being accepted as fact. RedClaw/JJ What Would Jesus Do? Member of -=DoS-United=- "StarCraft is fun" - me
Rocker For Christ Sergeant Major Posts: 444 (9/9/02 2:47 am) Reply	Re: brainwashing Wait a sec, I'm prolly wrong here, but, just wanted to point this out:: *Quote:* Faith, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel." - Ambroise Bierce "I don't believe in God because I don't believe in Mother Goose." - Clarence Darrow "Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence." - Richard Dawkins "It is wrong always, everywhere, and for anyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence." - William Kingdon Clifford *Quote:* Faith in what? Stories or Christ? Both I'd look over the thread again, but i gotta go to skool tomarrow and go on a overnight retreat....

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