Gateways2Babylon Study Group - choose a topic
and suggest new ones!
Post here what you would like us to study as a group. No, I have nooooo idea how we are going to do it as yet! ;) Have a couple of ideas, and will share with you, starting now...
Please join in!
best,
Lishtar
From the Depths and To the Heights to share in all spheres
Basically, we should have a common ground to start from, and therefore I thought that perhaps the book Religion in Ancient Mesopotamia, by Jean Bottéro, published by the Chicago University Press in 2001 might be an idea. It is not a veeeeery expensive book either for a hardbound copy, or about US $30,00, and can be ordered via Amazon or Eisenbrauns. Mark Cohen´s Cultic Calendars is more expensive, but these are classics, so well worth the investment.
Thus, my suggestions so far are:
1) Study together Religion in Ancient Mesopotamia;
2) The second option is the Cultic Calendar of Mesopotamia. The source would be Mark Cohen´s Cultic Calendars of the Ancient Near East. Because this book is rather lenghty, we could choose a specific time frame, i.e. the Third Dynasty of Ur, and start from there;
3) The third option is to walk the Assyrian Tree of Life according to Professor Parpola.
We could as well do the three options and others you may bring about as we proceed.... for the next three years to start with???
I guess we could get the material and start threads on the topic chosen, sharing the knowledge so acquired as we go along. The idea is to share, learn and have fun. The Process is the Goal ...
Dubsar, I would love to do Cultic Journeys around Nippur. This is another option. Heads up, everyone! We have with us the webmaster of the best site on Nippur in the net. Dubsar wrote once about a Cultic Journey around Nippur. This is another topic we could approach as well.
So post your ideas and ... on we proceed from them!
Happy Thanksgiving,
Lishtar
From the Depths and To the Heights to share in all spheres
Re: Gateways2Babylon Study Group - choose a topic
One of the things that people find hard to understand is that occult knowledge cannot be measured by normal standards. One can be a beginner and already have a deeper understanding of certain details of the tradition a more experienced walker along the path could not grasp in full.
This is why we should always start from a common ground... and delight with the insights obtained from all members and their understanding of the true sources.
Such a frame of mind is flexible and yet solid. It also goes against any dogmatic guruhood and/or Sitchin-like standpoint. This is what I call "the text will sing/reveal itself to you".
And gods be praised, Bottéro, Jacobsen, Kramer and Lambert and all the younger luminaries of Assyriology rarely get things wrong!
Nisaba be praised!
Have a marvelous Thanksgiving from,
Lishtar
From the Depths and To the Heights to share in all spheres
Re: Gateways2Babylon Study Group - choose a topic
Knowledge and knowing should walk together, hand in hand. Knowledge is acquired through reading the sources, by analysing the writings and use of Reflexive Intelligence to better appreciate and understand how the ancients perceived their world.
Knowing happens through the inner confirmation of truths we find in the literature, because by then our insights will be confronted and proved right... most of the times.
Knowledge without knowing is dry, knowing without knowledge is ungrounded hunch.
I normally start with knowledge. It can be the other way around. I guess Manna starts from knowing and proceeds to knowledge
The Path, if walked with integrity, will bring Knowledge and Knowing together.
Great, isn´t it?
from your Cheerful Bookish Mystic and Practical Sorceress,
Lishtar
From the Depths and To the Heights to share in all spheres
How about starting with Religion in Ancient Mesopotamia...
by Jean Bottéro on January 3rd or 2nd?
I guess we could do the same way we proceed with the threads, the difference is that we have a great foundation to base our thoughts upon (the book) and we will follow it from beginning to end.
I say January 3rd or 2nd because I will be leaving town on Dec 27th and return Jan 1st. Mother, sis and I are going to a place called Punta del Este, a very posh beach in Uruguay. I will certainly pack up my copy of Bottéro´s book, but am not sure if the hotel we are going to stay at has Internet access. If it does have, you will certainly hear from meeeee!
sighs I would have preferred that hotel in the mountains about 2 hours from here... I could take over the business center.... and it was an amazing business center to take by friendly and totally peaceful but relentless assault... I am not eating much either presently, but the Italian-German breakfast was outstanding.... Why am I not eating much? I don´t eat much normally and ... blush blush want to look great for Frank and Leiden
But sister prefers Punta del Este... snif snif
I will find a connection and tell you all about that place as well.
I know Manna has the book And that her birthday is Dec 19th!!!
Lish goes to get toys for nephews and niece this afternoon.
Enjoy your weekend, have great shopping and lots of fun too!
From the Depths and To the Heights to share in all spheres
Religion in Mesopotamia - Gateways2Babylon Study Group
How about getting started on January 2nd 2002? I am going to a famous beach in Uruguay called Punta Del Este tomorrow by plane after lunch and will be back on Jan 1st 2002. Surely I will try to find a cybercaffé as soon as I am there, and may even get lucky and find a business center to take over in the hotel!!!!
Suggestion: on January 1st 2002, when you log in to the board, visualize beams of light connecting our computers and offer a little prayer to the Spirit so that we can all grow with insights, knowing and knowledge on what was like Religion in Ancient Mesopotamia. This is a simple exercise to establish a connection or group mind, or to foster attunement to one another. Attunement was already discussed briefly here. It is attunement that creates the bridge between people, the Third Factor of Wonder that is established in all great relationships, because it is made from what we all add up to what we build together... Its foundation is Trust and Time. Thus, my suggestion is to start officially on January 2nd 2002.
Basically, we can start posting on every chapter and add up our bits and pieces. The first chapter is about Religious Sentiment... Great topic for inspired musings...
What makes us turn to the Divine in times of crisis and joy?
What were the first manifestations of the Unmanifest?
Anything and everything goes! Remember: Bottéro is just a common ground for us to start up with...
Dr. Butler has a scientific exploration of the numinous in his thesis, chapter 2, if I am not mistaken.
The book A Woman´s Kaballah by Vivianne Crowley has a good chapter on Kether, which is very much Chaos Theory of our days... ancient perception of the drumbeat of the Universe in our ancient wording... Drumbeat or heartbeat of the universe/life is a marvelous metaphor for energy and particles bonding before all befores and after the first beginnings that never end...
Wishing you a great after-Yule-Xmas-MidSummer joy,
Lishtar
From the Depths and To the Heights to share in all spheres
Re: Religion in Mesopotamia - Gateways2Babylon Study Group
Hi Lish!
Yes, starting with Bottero sounds great!!
I really look forward to having some productive (not that our other discussions aren't productive) conversation around a common topic that all us are reading at the same time. It really does help to provide for more attunement. I mean, this is how many small groups and study groups and groups of scholars from around the world do their work - collaboratively. And the best bonus of all is that the sum of the knowledge of the group is ALWAYS more than the knowledge of each of the individuals working individually.
This is the type of study I have been thirsting for - something more concrete and that has a common focus. And this isn't to say that our other conversations haven't been productive. However, I have missed the rigor of good academic conversations with a group of peers that challenge our assumptions and force us to stretch ourselves to greater levels of awareness. This is one thing that I have found lacking in my Iseum studies thus far. (which, btw, we will be starting our second year on Imbolc 2002).
Oh, another aside, I would love to know more about Bendis' list and the work that goes on there! I tried to find her email address to send her a query about it, but couldn't find one.
And one more thing - I did send an email to Manna for her birthday (she did provide an email in a past message). Has anyone heard from her??
And Lish, I so agree with you about knowledge and how length of time in practice of one's art doesn't necessarily translate into greater degrees of knowledge. Actually, I see it as a dichotomy between knowledge and wisdom. We have more knowledge than we know what to do with in todays hyper-information age, but what is terribly lacking in our society is wisdom!!! And the ultimate search in life, in my opinion, is not for more knowledge, but for more wisdom. Wisdom usually also comes with maturity, whereas you can have some extremely intelligent people who are social boneheads.
Ok.. time for bed . Lish - have an awesomelywonderfulandfantastic time at the beach!! Don't forget to use your sunscreen!! [mother Melissa here] We'll miss you until the 2nd, so I hope you will find a cybercafe once in a while. You always seem to find one whenever and wherever you are travelling.
In a taunt is its taunt; in a curse is its curse, (such is) the constant renewal of destiny. Sumerian Proverb
Re: Religion in Mesopotamia - Gateways2Babylon Study Group
Thanks a million for the best wishes and they are coming back to you and all your love and to our little cybercircle sevenfold! Bendis´ list is HerStudy in yahoo! Go there and explore!!!! I haven´t heard from Manna as yet, but she is a mommy and has three kids , so it is ok to allow her a week at least to recover from the festivities... Manna married Steven, who had three boys already. And Steven is Fellowship of Isis and a priest of Enki... smashing, isn´t it?
Great we are starting then on Jan 2nd. I will try to post here beforehand, if I can find a business center or cyberplace. hmm... don´t intend to get much of a tan... I am quite white and going into the sun means to turn as red as a tomato or a shrimp in the first .... month... in the tropical sun... I have lost all my bikini marks in the last few years... All my holidays have been to Europe when everyone is sunbathing here...
Hair gets pretty golden though which is excellent...
Lyceum work is great to foster attunement. But I will say to you the same thing that Caitlín said to me: you do fly with your own wings, Melissa. Thus, lyceum work... seems a bit... slowmoving for us... *cyberkisses to you and to the Heights Above and Depths Below
Exactly the reason why I got Caitlín Matthews and found that working with Vivianne Crowley was great... but she asked for us to spend too long hugging trees... in her training course... Love her... but wanted mooooooooore....
Now, some people need to spend more time hugging trees. And I guess we need to learn ... certain restraint ourselves... hmm... sometimes!!!! *chuckles
I am packing up my discs, Bottéro and A Woman´s Kaballah. First time in my life we leave for the New Year.
Luv first times... all of them! Would rather go to Gramado, but... hm... look quite nice now in glorious leggins, Xoxo jacket and summer outfit! Luv leggins... being small and slim has some advantages...
Embracing Melissa and you all in a long happy hug,
Lishtar
From the Depths and To the Heights to share in all spheres
Before all Befores...
In the vastness of the void, before beginning began,
When matter was non-existent...
Appreciation of the Divine starts before all befores, and the sentences above come from the Kabbalah. One of the interpretations of the Limitless in South Mesopotamia was the Waters of Mother Nammu, the self-procreating Womb of Abundance, the ever existing Mother of All.
I will be reading my chapters on this seating with my book by the sea, in one of the land´s end of South America. I adore to read surrounded by the elements, with the sea, the sun and the wind playing wth my hair and filling me within with a sense of wonder and oneness with all there is.
Think of the nights, very long nights, where Nanna´s brightness brought musings which later were transformed into the myths we adore...
Limitless espansion in the sea also created life. And the process of coming into life began in a before of all befores, which scientists refer to as the time before the Big Bang.
See how our soul ancestors agree with the brilliant minds of our times?
Great Magicks always agrees with Great Science.
from Punta Del Este (Uruguay), where I just got a mail from Manna, who also wishes you all the very best everywhere you go,
Lishtar
Well, I may have messed things up a bit as I didn't know if we would continue the study group work here or open up a new thread elsewhere. Somehow I didn't think that having it in the Q&A on Gateways2Babylon section was as appropriate as having it in our Gateways2Babylon Community area. My apologies in advance if I have stepped on toes inadvertently!!
Of course, Lish, you're the leader of our wonderful inner circle and have the ultimate authority on these things . If necessary, I can move the other posting to this thread, which would close the other one out and not cause more confusion!
In any event, you can see that it's evident I'm excited about this discussion / work / mutual learning experience and am jumping in (virtually speaking) feet first!!
See, Lish, you're not the only high energy poster here!
Sending cyberhugs to you all as we enter the new year!
Melissa / Shamhat
p.s. Well now I've gone back and re-read the whole thread only to see that Kiri already suggested we create a new thread!! So it looks as if my action was not all that off-topic ... whew!! *giggle
In a taunt is its taunt; in a curse is its curse, (such is) the constant renewal of destiny. Sumerian Proverb
Re: Before all Befores... Study Group
I luv movers and shakers, and the more the better
Besides, Kiri was a mover and shaker in the BabMagick list. I started posting in earnest there because she asked "is the list dead or not?" *chuckles
You don´t know how good it is to have lots of movers and shakers... not veeeeeeeery nice to have lively discussions with ... myself
In actual fact, this is one of the goals of the Fellowship of Isis. Training for priestess/hood aimst at that we all become worthy garments of our gods and goddesses and can speak up for Them... without ego inflation or guruhood...
hmm... a wonderful priestess of Freya (a Jungian analyst friend of mine) asked me: "is it possible to have two Priestesses of Freya at the same time?" A still monotheist heart luving a Great Gutsy Goddess of Love and War in the Norse pantheon for sure.... The more priestesses and priests of Enki and Inanna preferably, the merrier Lish is... (and she is not a fundamentalist... )
We have no hierarchies here and it is my wish that we all post as much as we can...
This is our board... and I mean it!
Love light and laughter and lots of messages to cover all facts, magickal or otherwise, in all spheres!
Lishtar
From the Depths and To the Heights to share in all spheres
and proceeds to knowledge 
Great topic for inspired musings... 
(which, btw, we will be starting our second year on Imbolc 2002).
. Lish - have an awesomelywonderfulandfantastic time at the beach!! 
Don't forget to use your sunscreen!! 
[mother Melissa here] We'll miss you until the 2nd, so I hope you will find a cybercafe once in a while. You always seem to find one whenever and wherever you are travelling. 
Bendis´ list is HerStudy in yahoo! Go there and explore!!!! I haven´t heard from Manna as yet, but she is a mommy and has three kids 
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