Howdy
Hello, I was recently introduced to this board by Saharda, my fiancee. I have been interested in ancient Mesopotamia since I was in high school, though I am a Kemetic (ancient Egyptian) recon by religion. I am glad to see there is finally a comunity for those interested in Mesopotamian religion that isn't ufo or fundamentalist monotheism based. Hopefull I can contribute some useful things to the board.
I have never made but one prayer to god, a very short one: "O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it. -Voltaire
Re: Howdy
She seemed rather well educated, but prone to slight misinterpretations. The Sumerians didn’t believe in reincarnation for example.
On an unrelated note: you mentioned that you were Wiccan, Sumerian magic had a lot to do with the summoning and banishing of demons and elemental forces as well as accepting darkness as a needed part of the religion. (Ie it was like most religions before about 1500 years ago.) That makes it LHP by the Wiccan definitions that I have heard. How does that sit with your beliefs?
Re: Howdy
Personlly, I do not believe in the personification of "evil" in the forms of demons and devils persay....but I do believe there are--let's just say--not so nice entities out there. Summoning them I have not done...the closet would be summoning a "dark" Goddess such as Lilith (but since some believe Her to be a demon..I suppose that counts ) Banishing them I have done countless times. Elemental forces I have not delved into too much. Ceremonial Magick (CM) uses Elemental Forces but I have no interest in learning that Path as they tend to lean too heavily on Judeo-Christian theology and I am not comfortable summoning ArchAngels or other Bibical persons into my Circle.
Honestly, I am not one to be huge on magickal work..I use when it I need it, but that is not very often.
As for darkness being a needed part of the religion...any well educated and non-fluffbunny Wiccan will tell you the same thing. One must have the darkness and the light in order to be balanced. I have never had a problem working with LHP if the need be. I do not have my head in the sand so far in that I can not see the fact that not everything is rainbows, fluffy clouds, and daisies...
Re: Howdy
To be honest I was more interested in finding out if you were fluffy or not. Looks like you aren’t and also that you are also quite versed in your path.
Re: Howdy
Thank you I have been studying for a bit now...once belonged to a Coven and was training for HPS..but Coven life just isn't for me right now.
Question about demons: In Sumeria are demons percieved the same as in Judeo-Christian or are they more like nasty mischevious entities?
Re: Howdy
That’s a can full of worms, many of the Christian demons were taken from ancient near eastern sources. The main difference is that Christian demons are innately evil. This is a concept that the Christians adopted from the Zoroastrians. Sumerian demons are primarily destructive, but all demons had a glimmer of a good side. Lilith for example was a wind demon and was associated with taking/consuming babies. This indicates that the Sumerians associated her with the death of babies. On the other hand she was probably also one that you would beseech for protection from respiratory ailments as any demon can protect against something that they are the demon of.
In Sumer the demon wasn’t the same as the disease by the way. The demons caused you to get an ailment, but banishing the demon wouldn’t heal the patient on its own. (I’ll answer in a little more lengthy fashion later, as I am in a hurry now.)
BTW did you catch that I just created a new board?
Re: Howdy
This is very interesting...I hope you will be able to elaborate more soon
I saw that you started a new board...I might check it out..it's just that I really like this Board and hate to see it completely die. And honestly, as the Creator of a Board I feel a bit weird ditching one Board for another Board that was advertised...it's just one of those things. But your Board sounds really nice Like I said, I might check it out.
I think I will make a new topic about demons so that it gets it's own space.
Re: Howdy
I understand how you feel. I was a little hesitant to create it knowing that it make this board even more wobbly than before, but this board needs to have more than just a hand full of people who post, and it needs to have some sort of moderation. There needs to be a person who runs the board for it to stay alive. Once you cut off the head the board slowly dies even if it is slowly.
Just found this board... it's exactly what I was looking for. I read the plea for more activity in the above post and figured I better not lurk any longer! I have lots of questions and thoughts and hope to contribute as much as I can.
I'm interested in magick and occultism in general and am intrigued by the Sumerian religion/pantheon. One of my reasons for joining this board is to learn more about the "Sumerian Recon" mentioned in a few posts (regretably, I haven't read through all of them yet) and how this differs from "Sumerian theme-ed" Wicca.
I majored in Near Eastern Archaeology in university but have been out of the NE loop for over 5 years now (been "searching" elsewhere - ie. Norse Mythology - for quite a while). I've been feeling pulled back in the direction of Sumer recently but since all my books are on the other side of the planet and my memory is like a sieve I may have to do some serious mental dredging to get back to where I was then.
So glad ot meet you all. Hope this board doesn't sink.
GG
I am like a sheep who has no reliable shepherd; there is no reliable herdsman to lead me on.
Sumer and Wicca
Sumerian themed Wicca, if done correctly, would honestly not be that bad. The god would have to be taken as Anu and the Goddess would likely be Ki (also known as Ninki). Unlike Wicca you would not be able to say that all other deities and entities were part of these two as Sumerians were more polytheistic.
The three-fold rule is a modern concept, but following it would not conflict with the Sumerian beliefs. The ritual sex implied by the use of the knife and bowl of fruit juice would have probably seemed silly to the Sumerians, but on the other hand you could easily dedicate a ritual blade to any specific deity, and the juice could be used as an offering (though by all accounts the gods would have preferred actual wine.)
Your alter could be easily modified to look like a Sumerian home alter. An image of you worshiping and an image of your patron god would be essential though.
I personally don’t suggest calling the watchtowers or summoning the gods. The Sumerians would have looked down upon such practices.
Take all of this with a grain of salt by the way. I am not and have never been a Wiccan and I don’t think that the blending of the two is done well enough in general. It can be done, but keep in mind that Sumerian themed Wicca is Wicca at its core and is simply a variation on a new religion and not ancient in any way.
Quote:Sumerian demons are primarily destructive, but all demons had a glimmer of a good side. Lilith for example was a wind demon and was associated with taking/consuming babies. This indicates that the Sumerians associated her with the death of babies.
In this, I believe that you are incorrect. "Lilith" was not a character in the Sumerian cosmogony; she was a Hebrew mythological figure, later beocme a demon.
Lilith's name was derived from the Sumerian "lilitu", which was a term for a certin type of evil spirit. However, "Lilith" was not Sumerian.
Also, while Babylonian magick seems othave largely employed demons and the command thereof, Sumerian magick seems to have been mostly of either a religious nature or a folk magickal nature.
Re: Sumer and Wicca
"I personally don't suggest calling the watchtowers or summoning the gods. The Sumerians would have looked down upon such practices."
This is not the first time I've heard things along this line. Only, I've heard different reasons. I've recently begun working in the field of ceremonial magic. I'm still really in the early stages of my studies so haven't done any really practical work... just about to begin practicing the LBRP.
But that's a little off topic... to get back on topic, I've heard of the "inherent dangers" of magic and in summoning spirits/intelligences in general. But many people have strongly warned against the summoning of Sumerian entities in particular. They seem to think Sumerian deities/spirits/demons/etc. are too primal and thus too dangerous. Some even imply they're more dangerous than the Goetia. Personally, I don't see how this can be the case. Maybe these people are relying too heavily on crap from the Necro. I don't know.
I think your idea of "the Sumerians would look down on it" is a better reason for not summoning the gods, but I'd like to know why you think this. Didn't the Sumerian/Babylonian priests, in effect, summon the deity into the cult statue? (Or is this description too simplistic?) During the Akitu festival, the priest has a private conversation with Marduk. Would this be seen as simply a prayer, or could the god have been actually summoned for this purpose?
At any rate, thanks for your input. It's all very helpful.
I am like a sheep who has no reliable shepherd; there is no reliable herdsman to lead me on.
) Banishing them I have done countless times. Elemental forces I have not delved into too much. Ceremonial Magick (CM) uses Elemental Forces but I have no interest in learning that Path as they tend to lean too heavily on Judeo-Christian theology and I am not comfortable summoning ArchAngels or other Bibical persons into my Circle. 
I have been studying for a bit now...once belonged to a Coven and was training for HPS..but Coven life just isn't for me right now. 
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