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Language project stage one: alphabet, pronunciation
First of all, we have to make a choice: an alphabet, or something else perhaps? i've heard of "syllabaries", that means every syllable has its own character. But maybe thats a bit too complicated.
Personally i think we should have a normal alphabet, but arabic looking. The sounds would be basic romance, with a few added, such as the glottal stop, the the arabic q (more back in the throat) some germanic ones, and lots o others. In my opinion that is. Ideas? proposals? post em here.
Re: Language project stage one: alphabet, pronunciation
Alphabet: I think we should avoid syllabary thingies - I think it would be difficult to write on a computer, and you'd need loads of different characters. I say we use a simple alphabet - the Arabic one's quite difficult, but it is nice and flowing. We could make an easier version of the Arabic principle (i.e. different forms of each letter for the beginning of a word, middle or end). But it may still be difficult to write on a computer. Maybe we would be better off sticking with the Roman alphabet. Although that's a bit boring. Hm I'd rather have a unique alphabet, but a nice simple one
As for the sounds, maybe we could include a few French-style nasal vowels Just an idea. And how about a guttural ch (as in Loch) sound?
Are we going to have an English- (or Dutch-) style h? Or silent, like French (and Spanish I think)? Or we could use "h" to stand for the "Loch" sound. Or the Arabic "H" (pronounced like an English h, except it comes from the same place in the throat Arabic "q") - it's a nice sound. Well, I like it anyway
Re: Language project stage one: alphabet, pronunciation
I can help out. After all, I'm the inventor of the micronational pronunciation key! Ok, not many people know about it, but still! Ii koohn help owt. Aftuhr ol, Iim dhu inventuhr uv dhu miikrinashinoohl prohnownseeyaashin kee! Ohkaa, not menee peepuhl noh abowt it, but stil!
Re: Language project stage one: alphabet, pronunciation
I hate nasal stuff... but if you can't resist
I'd go for a standard alphabet, like the roman one... But totally different. In the style of the Arabic stuff, but from left to right (right to left could give annoying probs)
We could connect each letter and such, have different kinds of accents and make them look totally different... Ive got my font creator thingy here, so when the alphabet is finished i'll create a font for it.
For now we'll just have to write up and scan stuff or draw it :0
Re: Language project stage one: alphabet, pronunciation
hmmm, I know one funny dutch sound, it's the "g" I think it would fall under a kh in my system. I always liked saying "Grolsch" Oh, btw, the Netherlands is the only other country I've visited outside of North America.
For starters, Im guessing Trian is pronunced "Treeyun" ? or "Treeyon" or perhaps "Triyon/Triyun"
Re: Language project stage one: alphabet, pronunciation
okay, here's what i propose to have as sounds:
A as in father. a is the short version, á is long.
B as in english
C as s before e or i, as k in all other cases.
D as in english
Thorn (how does one write that? Alt + 1234 or somath) as th in THe
E as a in lame, e and é
F as in english
G as in english
dutch G (the one earl is talking about). Basically its a german CH, but voiced instead of unvoiced.
CH (german one)
^CH (arabic one, like german one but deeper down in the throat)
Q (arabic, like k but deeper down in the throat)
I i and í, like wheeeee
J as in english
K as in english
L as in english
LL, perhapswe could have the whelsh L? I know more or less how it's pronounced but not exactly, so someone should have to explain that to me again
M as in english
N as in english
NG as in german/dutch, which means as in english without the hard G sound.
O as in "oh", o and ó
P as in english
R as in spanish
^R as in french (rolling)
' glottal stop as in arabic, also in english between two identical vowel sounds, for example try pronouncing "arena ' accusation" fast, the ' is the glottal stop.
S as in english
T as in english
Eth (the pacar symbol ) as Th in theme
U as bOOm, u and ú, between vowels as W
V as in english
X as sh in fish (as in Xantari )
Z as in english
Okay, these are more or less the sounds i want in it. They are NOT the letters of the alphabet. There are lots more sounds than letters, so we could create letter combinations for certain sounds.
Whats you think? We can add moresounds, get rid of some, or just create a new sound thingy, it's only a proposal.
Re: Language project stage one: alphabet, pronunciation
looks good to me
Thorn is the ̃/₫ character, and is unvoiced. ̃ = ALT + 0222, ₫ = ALT + 0254.
Eth is Đ/đ, and is voiced. Đ = ALT+0208, đ = ALT + 0240
I think the LL in Welsh is pronounced like this:
Position the tongue as if you were saying "L" but don't vibrate the vocal cords. Most people just say "tl" but that's sloppy and.. well.. wrong.. It's more like pronouncing "hl" quickly.
Also, are the vowels diphthongs? "Lame" in English has a slight "y" sound at the end. If we did have diphthongs, maybe we could emphasize them slightly so they don't sound so English. e.g. English = "laym", Triáni = more like "lay-yeem"; English = "oh", Triáni = "oh-oo".
Re: Language project stage one: alphabet, pronunciation
well it seems fine to me then.
How about stress? I suppose we could sort that out when we've thought of a few words. Bearing in mind that words such as Tri"án and Tri"vén are stressed on the last syllable.
So far, it would fit the Arabic stress pattern (I think) - basically "the accent falls on the long syllable nearest to the end of the word". Although we could make the language more complex, where stress depends on the origin of the word...
Re: Language project stage one: alphabet, pronunciation
Ok, here's my thoughts:
Quote:A as in father. a is the short version, á is long.
In other words a short o? What about bat or cat?
á as in bait? or as in bun? That's more of a "u" sound, or maybe that's the upsidedown e. Something like that.
Quote:C as s before e or i, as k in all other cases.
We don't need c's. C's are the most useless letter ever.
Quote:Thorn (how does one write that? Alt + 1234 or somath) as th in THe
I think you guys went over that. above.
Quote:E as a in lame, e and é
That's basically a long a. What is the difference between an e and an é then?
Quote:G as in english
I hope you mean G as in gate, and not as in Nigeria.
Quote:dutch G (the one earl is talking about). Basically its a german CH, but voiced instead of unvoiced.
CH (german one)
^CH (arabic one, like german one but deeper down in the throat)
ah yes, that one.
Quote:Q (arabic, like k but deeper down in the throat)
all these damn throat sounds bah!
Quote:I i and í, like wheeeee
So, a long e? and what's the difference between i and
í?
Quote:J as in english
We dont need j's either. Dzh is good, providing you have the zh sound. zh is like the french j, but Im sure you know that.
Quote:LL, perhapswe could have the whelsh L? I know more or less how it's pronounced but not exactly, so someone should have to explain that to me again
Oh god, here we go with the welsh
Quote:NG as in german/dutch, which means as in english without the hard G sound.
What hard g sound?
Quote:O as in "oh", o and ó
This is the hard o. Again, what is the specific differece between the accented version, and the non accented version.
Quote:R as in spanish
hold on, how does this sound?
Quote:^R as in french (rolling)
What about for those of us who have trouble rolling our r's?
Quote:' glottal stop as in arabic, also in english between two identical vowel sounds, for example try pronouncing "arena ' accusation" fast, the ' is the glottal stop.
Don't you just love the word glottal?
Quote:U as bOOm, u and ú, between vowels as W
accent difference? for a "w" sound we could use "ou" like in French.
Quote:X as sh in fish (as in Xantari )
here we go with the strange usage of x's.
Some add ons:
I'm a big fan of zh personally. There are so many sounds you have left out though, but I guess they won't be in the language
Re: Language project stage one: alphabet, pronunciation
i think this is the idea about pronouncing vowels:
SHORT
a = like "cat"
e = like "bed"
i = like "pin"
o = like "pot"
u = like "bun"? or it could be like "book"?
LONG
á = like "cart"
é = like "café"; watch out - é isn't a long "a". A long "a" sound is like "cart".
í = almost like "feel", but pure. It isn't a long "e".
ó = "oh"
ú = "boom"
In the NG description I think Sander was pointing out that you shouldn't ever pronounce the G, e.g. in the word "enGlish" (pronounced like "ing-glish")
I know there are countless sounds missed out, but if we have too many, the language would have much of a.. flavour. I don't think, anyway. It'd just sound like a jumble of sounds.
Hm I don't think it really matters whether we use "j" or "zh" or "dzh" or whatever - we're (probably) going to have our own alphabet anyway
) as Th in theme
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