NUHERE?

1. What do you believe in?

Why believe in anything? I accept the evidence as I find it.

2. Why did you try to stur up some much trouble?
I don't stir up trouble. I seek answers and encourage others to do so as well.

and 3. Do you need anything prayed for?
There is no need to pray as I can think of at least a dozen things I would like to see and know that praying is not going to accomplish them. If you read the posts there should be no need to rehash them again.

Author	Comment
X Zack X Private Posts: 5 (8/12/02 8:39 pm) Reply	NUHERE? NUHERE, I just have some questions for you? 1. What do you believe in? 2. Why did you try to stur up some much trouble and 3. Do you need anything prayed for? So says me X Zack X Edited by: X Zack X at: 8/12/02 8:42:23 pm
NUHERE Corporal Posts: 142 (8/12/02 8:51 pm) Reply	Nu 1. What do you believe in? Why believe in anything? I accept the evidence as I find it. 2. Why did you try to stur up some much trouble? I don't stir up trouble. I seek answers and encourage others to do so as well. and 3. Do you need anything prayed for? There is no need to pray as I can think of at least a dozen things I would like to see and know that praying is not going to accomplish them. If you read the posts there should be no need to rehash them again.
Kaze9999 friend Posts: 873 (8/13/02 1:36 pm) Reply	Re: Nu I have not noticed you seeking any answers. So far I have only noticed you attempting to provide alternative answers to us, in response to questions that only you are asking. In other words, you post an "answer" to your "question", and do not seem to interested in any answers but your own. So, what, as honestly as you can manage, do you really think you are seeking here? Eric --------------Just a signature------------------------ Genesis {33:19} He said, "I will make all my goodness pass before you, and will proclaim the name of Yahweh before you. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy." Romans {9:20} But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed ask him who formed it, "Why did you make me like this?" {9:21} Or hasn't the potter a right over the clay, from the same lump to make one part a vessel for honor, and another for dishonor? Steven Brust {Phoenix} A god is someone who isn't bound by natural laws, and who can morally commit an action which would be immoral for someone who wasn't a god. E Q .
NUHERE Corporal Posts: 144 (8/13/02 6:22 pm) Reply	nu Kaze: Genesis {33:19} He said, "I will make all my goodness pass before you, and will proclaim the name of Yahweh before you. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy." Isn't this a little heavy handed, especially from a God that can do anything? Why does he need man to worship him? I think this is beneath the creator if there is one. We wouldn't tolerate this heavy handedness from associates why do you think God is no better? Romans {9:20} But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed ask him who formed it, "Why did you make me like this?" {9:21} Or hasn't the potter a right over the clay, from the same lump to make one part a vessel for honor, and another for dishonor? The words in Romans are not Gods but Pauls. Paul never met Jesus. Where does Paul get his authority to dictate? He has a vision and the rest is history. Paul was not beneath lying to gain converts. I Corinthians 9:20-22 ~ In this passage Paul is saying that it is okay to intentionally deceive people in order to convert them to Christ. II Corinthians 12:16 ~ "Nevertheless, being crafty, I caught you with guile." Here Paul openly admits to practicing deception. "teven Brust {Phoenix} A god is someone who isn't bound by natural laws, and who can morally commit an action which would be immoral for someone who wasn't a god. E Q ." Is this something like Superman or Santa? Really , a God who is not bound by natural laws? Who made God? Have you seen God? Where is God? Can you show me evidence of God. Please don't refer me to those things you or perhaps science does not as yet understand.
Kaze9999 friend Posts: 875 (8/13/02 7:02 pm) Reply	Re: nu I repeat, you do not want my answers, what do you want? Eric --------------Just a signature------------------------ Genesis {33:19} He said, "I will make all my goodness pass before you, and will proclaim the name of Yahweh before you. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy." Romans {9:20} But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed ask him who formed it, "Why did you make me like this?" {9:21} Or hasn't the potter a right over the clay, from the same lump to make one part a vessel for honor, and another for dishonor? Steven Brust {Phoenix} A god is someone who isn't bound by natural laws, and who can morally commit an action which would be immoral for someone who wasn't a god. E Q .
NUHERE Corporal Posts: 148 (8/14/02 6:22 pm) Reply	nu Eric "I repeat, you do not want my answers, what do you want? " I do want your answers. I want to see if your answers hold water and if they can be verified.So far they have not. You may not even be aware at this time why your answers and reasoning are false. Only you can prove what you believe to be true . This comes from looking at the evidence or lack of it. It comes from thinking and asking questions and again looking hard at the answers. Most theists believe the way they do because they have been taught as children to believe, maybe not God directly but in things like Santa etc. As I said before Santa was a junior god. He has many of the attributes of varsity God. He knows when your good or bad, he rewards good behavior , punishes you for being bad, he always sees you etc.
salaboB Gunnery Sergeant Posts: 284 (8/14/02 9:33 pm) Reply	Re: NUHERE? For some reason though, you ignore half my arguments and keep getting sidetracked on the other half. Are you not noticing that my posts usually answer multiple questions from your previous ones, or do you just not have a response that is better than mine?
X Zack X Private Posts: 8 (8/14/02 11:19 pm) Reply	Re: NUHERE? Yes NUHERE, your mind is set you don't want to listen to anyone else if you were 'open' to others answers than why do you just block out what they say and mark them as wrong when they go against what you think? So says me X Zack X
NUHERE Sergeant Posts: 151 (8/15/02 5:01 pm) Reply	nu Zack "your mind is set you don't want to listen to anyone else...?" If you could show me evidence that was verifiable I would look at it. So far what has been shown if based emotion, scientists that are not unbiased, scientists that have already made up their mind, and historians that do not really have any credibility because they are only passing down what they have heard or made up. I think that someone who shook up the world should have much more evidence than what is there. In fact there should be "SOMETHING" there. The reality is their is nothing there.Outside of the bible their is nothing, Jesus wrote nothing down, no one at the time says anything about him. If you look at the bible the gospels don't agree on many issues. Paul's writings completely ignore many of the supposedly well known events in the life of Jesus. How come?
Kaze9999 friend Posts: 878 (8/15/02 5:34 pm) Reply	Re: nu "truely your intellect is dazzling"--Black Pirate Roberts Well, since all you want is an intelligent answer that could support Christianity, and you know that all the answers, historians, and scientists that do and have supported it over the millenia cannot provide one single intelligent answer, then obviously we are in the presence of the greatest intellect in two thousand years! Only you have seen through the ridiculous lies that have fooled us all! We are not worthy! Surely someone with your amazing abilities has something more important to go do? Eric --------------Just a signature------------------------ Genesis {33:19} He said, "I will make all my goodness pass before you, and will proclaim the name of Yahweh before you. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy." Romans {9:20} But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed ask him who formed it, "Why did you make me like this?" {9:21} Or hasn't the potter a right over the clay, from the same lump to make one part a vessel for honor, and another for dishonor? Steven Brust {Phoenix} A god is someone who isn't bound by natural laws, and who can morally commit an action which would be immoral for someone who wasn't a god. E Q . Edited by: Kaze9999 at: 8/15/02 5:36:06 pm
NUHERE Sergeant Posts: 154 (8/15/02 5:44 pm) Reply	nu "Only you have seen through the ridiculous lies that have fooled us all! " You shouldn't be so shocked, after all once upon a time the whole world believed the earth was flat, and that the sun revolved around the earth. There are many things that were believed by many to eventually be found out to be false. Revealed religions are just part of the many. "Surely someone with your amazing abilities has something more important to go do?" I consider enlightening my fellow man extremely important. There is no higher calling than exposing the truth.
MysteryFlame7 Private First Class Posts: 43 (8/17/02 2:15 am) Reply	nu Wow, at last I agree with something you say, NUHERE. I too believe that there is no higher calling than proclaiming the truth. However, the truth that I proclaim is at ods with your false 'truth'. laughs at the oxymoron Kris<>< 1st Cor. 13:4-7... Words to Love by...
NUHERE Sergeant Posts: 163 (8/17/02 6:47 am) Reply	nu "Wow, at last I agree with something you say, NUHERE. I too believe that there is no higher calling than proclaiming the truth. However, the truth that I proclaim is at ods with your false 'truth'. laughs at the oxymoron " Finally, someone who is willing to present credible evidence. sigh!!!! "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." Hebrews 11:1 Is this the thinking of a rational person? Think about it. "After Jesus Christ we have no need of speculation, after the Gospels we have no need of research. When we come to believe, we have no desire to believe anything else; for we begin by believing that there is nothing else with which we have to believe.... My first principle is this. Christ laid down one definite system of truth which the world must believe without qualification." 1 "I believe because it is impossible." 2 Church Father Tertullian (160-220?) More words of wisdom? Do these words give you confidence in what you believe? Are these the words that say Jesus lived? Note the years this early church father existed. Even then he knew the events were bogus. The reality of the situation is this "faith" short circuits the thinking process. The faith must be constantly reinvigorated at all costs and anything that contradicts must be automatically explained away as the arrogance of "the wise". So when christians are shown that what they believe in is only a collection of ancient writings masquerading a the "Word of God" this is dismissed by Christians as a delusion by unbelievers who have been blinded by their sin. When science discovers evidence that clearly contradict biblical pronouncments these discoveries are interpreted as satanic trickery.So therefore can you tell me why "faith" and believing no matter what the evidence says, no matter what the laws of nature are, is considered the highest manifestation of moral righteousness?
MRhan0 Posts: 1720 (8/20/02 10:06 am) Reply	Re: nu Do to the fact that I have not been reading this forum for quite some time, I have not read your posts (yet), NUHERE, but from what I have seen from this thread, let me just point out something... All the scientists, archaeologists, and whatnot in the world have never proven anything in the Bible as false. In fact, more and more, they are proving the Bible as truth. Many manuscripts are found that verify what the Bible says. Many archaeological sites have proven what was said in the Bible. And many scientists that have sought to prove the Bible wrong have come to the logical conclusion that there must be a God because nothing else makes sense. Only those who are blind to the truth cannot see the truth. Those who love the dark recoil from the light and do not want to touch it to see if it is good. If you want a good discussion with us, then please, read each reply carefully and ask questions about what was replied to you. Don't be unwilling to continue a debate simply because you have said all you wanted to say about the topic. Keep it going by challenging what people tell you (not by attacking, but by asking useful questions) and keep an open mind. You will see there is truth in Christ. I think I would also recommend reading Mere Christianity by CS Lewis. I haven't read it myself because I became a Christian without the need of it, but I have heard it is a great book and will answer many questions you may have. And, many Christians were not Christians from childhood. Many became Christians when they got older, such as myself who became one at 20. However, most atheists and agnostics were that way from the start and never had the truth told to them except perhaps in bits and pieces that do not give enough reason for accepting God, so they ignore those pieces. So what you say about Christians is more the truth of atheists and agnostics than of Christians. In one week, I will have more time to spend online and will read and respond to your posts. I hope you will take the time to read my replies and ask useful questions rather than to just assume that I am wrong before looking to see if I am right. May God show you His light.
Kaze9999 friend Posts: 880 (8/20/02 11:11 am) Reply	Re: nu Well...it does seem tohave driven up our average daily post total. Though not our number of views. Eric --------------Just a signature------------------------ Genesis {33:19} He said, "I will make all my goodness pass before you, and will proclaim the name of Yahweh before you. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy." Romans {9:20} But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed ask him who formed it, "Why did you make me like this?" {9:21} Or hasn't the potter a right over the clay, from the same lump to make one part a vessel for honor, and another for dishonor? Steven Brust {Phoenix} A god is someone who isn't bound by natural laws, and who can morally commit an action which would be immoral for someone who wasn't a god. E Q .
Unfallen Angel Private First Class Posts: 26 (8/20/02 12:08 pm) Reply	Re: nu Excellent, MRhan0. Exactly what I have been wanting to say for some time. Also, Nuhere, I have noticed that most of your posts come from you ignoring half of our arguements and misunderstanding the other half. There is a major lack of communication here. Talk to me! - - Unfallen I took the What Mythological Creature Are you? test by !
NUHERE Sergeant Posts: 184 (8/20/02 4:40 pm) Reply	nu mrh: "All the scientists, archaeologists, and whatnot in the world have never proven anything in the Bible as false" Surly you jest. The scientific claims in the bible are just one of many. Where are the four "corners" of the earth? Show me evidence of the flood. Show evidence of the reality of Jesus. How can you divide days and evenings in Genesis before the sun was created? Gen1:1-19 Where are the foundations of he earth? Gen38:4-7 IN Leviticus 11:6 it says that rabbits chew the cud. NOT! "In fact, more and more, they are proving the Bible as truth." There may be some things in the bible that may be archeologically correct. That doesn't mean it is the infallable word of God nor the word of God at all. If someone writes 200 years from now that their was a country that had fifty states and one of its leaders was Bill Clinton and he could walk on water some of it is true and some of it is not. Outside of archeology claims has anyone shown proof of the miraculous supernatural claims? "on't be unwilling to continue a debate simply because you have said all you wanted to say about the topic. Keep it going by challenging what people tell you (not by attacking, but by asking useful questions) and keep an open mind.' I have an open mind. The evidence that has been presented is based on emotion, known liars in the case of creation science, historians that were biased as early church leaders etc. I encourage you to keep an open mind and consider the possibility that what you have been told is false. I encourage you to prove to yourself with evidence what is true or likely to be true.I have heard about CS Lewis and have responded to that. In case you haven't read my post my reponse was that he was never really an atheist in the first place. If you read about his early childhood his was steeped in mythology. I don't think he ever got over it. Why don't you read about Dan Barker? He was a preacher turned atheist. "owever, most atheists and agnostics were that way from the start" Maybe maybe not.If you have the stats show em. In any case that is not my situation.In fact I was where you are now at one time. I came to this conclusion quite by accident whild debating a born again friend. The more I searched on material the more I found contradictory until I started looking for evidence and found none. There isn't anything reliable outside of the bible to justify the claims made inside. "o what you say about Christians is more the truth of atheists and agnostics than of Christians. I don't think I said anything about Christians, at least not directly. It's the religion that is false and unreliable.I'm sure Christians mean well but they have been duped into believing superstition. If you have evidence that is credible present it.
NUHERE Sergeant Posts: 185 (8/20/02 4:46 pm) Reply	nu Fallen: "Exactly what I have been wanting to say for some time." Really, I thought we went back to the begining with this post.He primarily uses the same emotional appeal and use of the bible as everyone else. Again no real evidence is presented.Listen carefully, without the bible you could not justify what you believe in.Why ? Because the evidence does not exist outside of it. If you want to believe the stories that is fine. Just be aware there is no evidence for it.
RshScks Master Sergeant Posts: 391 (8/20/02 7:43 pm) Reply	Re: nu "Show me evidence of the flood. Show evidence of the reality of Jesus. How can you divide days and evenings in Genesis before the sun was created? Gen1:1-19 Where are the foundations of he earth? Gen38:4-7 IN Leviticus 11:6 it says that rabbits chew the cud. NOT!" As soon as you show me proof for evolution, the big bang, and everything else you have proof for, I will take the time to show you proof of the flood and everything else. "The principle runs through all life from top to bottom. Give up yourself, and you will find your real self. Lose your life and you will save it. Submit to death, death of your ambitions and favorite wishes everyday and death of your whole body in the end: submit with every fiber of your being, and you will find enternal life. Keep back nothing. Nothing that you have not given away will ever really be yours. Nothing in you that has not died will ever be raised from the dead. Look for yourself, and you will find in the long run only hatred, loneliness, despair, rage, ruin, and decay. But look for Christ and you will find Him, and with Him everything else thrown in." -C.S. Lewis "Mere Christianity"
spaceman spiff Protector of Earth Posts: 2618 (8/21/02 7:06 pm) Reply	Ok........ Here Nu, you might want to look at this link:: www.christiananswers.net/menu-at1.html
NUHERE Sergeant Posts: 194 (8/21/02 8:21 pm) Reply	ok I looked over your site real quick. What I can gather is that it just doesn't accept what science has discovered. It also uses the bible to explain itself. One note to prove I looked at it concerns the article about why didn't other animals die with the dinasaurs when the the asteroid hit the planet. Your site says the asteroid didn't hit earth because of this fact. This is a gradeschool answer. Dinasaurs were reptilian and if the planet cooled enough they couldn't survive. Secondly they were huge and required a great amount of food. If an asteroid hit the food chain would have been severly disrupted for animals this large. That is when I realized the site had nothing new to offer.

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