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Unfallen Angel
Private First Class
Posts: 20
(5/30/03 8:30 pm)
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Semantics or not?
I was very impressed by Billy Graham's message at the Crusade in San Diego, but one minor detail has been niggling at the back of my head since I heard him say a certain phrase which just didn't ring true to me.

He said, "Every one of us will die."

Now, by my logic, those of us who are alive at the second coming of Christ (or the rapture or whatever actually happens) will not die, but will be immediately in our new lives.

Also, a few prominent figures in the Bible were taken off to be with God without dying...

So is BG wrong, or is it just a misunderstanding on my part?

Not that I'd be particularly upset if he were wrong; after all, the guy is only human like the rest of us. And the rest of his message was... beautiful. Touching. And I greatly respect him.

In all honesty,
- - Unfallen

SirNukes
Cow Master
Posts: 2104
(5/30/03 11:17 pm)
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Re: Semantics or not?
Well, personally, I never trusted Graham that much. I know it won't make me more popular for not liking the guy, but certain things about him (or his orginization) just rub me the wrong way. He's too much of a people pleaser, which means I somewhat distrust his motives. I was just looking through his orginization's website to see if I could validate my distrust, and I more or less have. Things aren't said that are blatantly wrong (too many people are probably involved in cross checking), but they tend to be iffy. Also, on more obscure things where most people won't find fault, I don't like what is said.

For instance, there's a thing there that says if people didn't pray, the world would be 100x worse. Seeing as how I believe prayer to be a personal growth thing, that rubs me the wrong way. Related to that is a section where you can type in prayers, which also rubs me the wrong way for the same reason.

And then there's that thing with Graham, Nixon, and a tape concerning the Jews...

As for the people dying thing (see? I got to it eventually), remember that most likely a series of people from different denominations and religions had to approve it before it was said. And it was probably approved because, in a probablistic sense, it is true (and, at a slight sacrifice of truth, the speech gains some emotional influence). Not necissarily everyone has/will die, but death applies to such a majority that you can basically assume you will die and, if wrong, consider it a pleasent surprise.

So, you're right, the statement is not entirely true. But they're right, because it's true enough. Imo. Though, again, I distrust their motives (I never liked manipulation of emotion).


-Brent

TCWalt 
Staff Sergeant
Posts: 226
(6/3/03 10:37 am)
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Re: Semantics or not?
This might surprise some, but absolutely agree wholeheartedly with Brent in this case. I question Graham, his organization and his motives. And I do not agree that we will ALL die. You point out a good example of why I question Graham and his organization.

Christie

SirNukes
Cow Master
Posts: 2107
(6/3/03 1:32 pm)
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Re: Semantics or not?
Wow. Someone agreed. That's cool (but not for Graham, I guess). I'm really interested in what Kaze has to say now.


-Brent

Dualhunter
Second Lieutenant
Posts: 519
(6/6/03 4:26 pm)
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Re: Semantics or not?
People sometimes say "we will all die" and leave out, "unless Christ returns first." Technically it's wrong if you leave out the last bit but often people still mean, "unless Christ returns first" even though they don't mention the exception (I say "the" exception because there is nothing in scripture to imply anymore individual raptures).

Kaze9999
friend
Posts: 1085
(6/16/03 11:37 am)
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Re: Semantics or not?
I am curious why Brent is curious what I think on this! :D

Nonetheless, I was in the stadium when he said it, and I am pretty sure that Dr. Graham was speaking in terms of the people in the stadium, therefore excluding Elijah, Enoch, etc.

As for the the timing of the 2nd coming, I have no problem with him not mentioning that as a caveat in his message. He was specifically speaking to unbelievers who need to know Christ.

As for my feelings about Billy Graham in general, I think he's great! Within the mission God's given him. Specifically, he is my all time favorite evangelist (well, mostly because I never got to meet Saint Paul). Not my favorite Bible teacher, or my favorite family counselor or my favorite Pastor 'shepard'. In fact, none of those roles are filled, for me, by the same person. :)

I have heard the knocks on Billy Graham as a people pleaser, and yes, he has gone along with saying 'God' instead of Jesus' when he prayed at political events, and yes, he has been extremely quiet while his son, Franklin, takes incredible heat for saying that Islam is not a 'peaceful' religion and is a false religion. and yes he has never bad mouthed anyone (certianly not any celebrity) in public.

But I don't think it is because Billy Graham just wants everyone to like him or wants our money or wants to be popular. I think that he has a very narrow focus of gaining access to the unsaved and telling them the Gospel, and trying to help them join in the body of Christ.

So, ultimately, do I think that the ideal Christian is a clone of Billy Graham? Of course not!

But I do think he has been faithfully following the Lord Jesus Christ's plan for his life for 60 odd years, and I respect that greatly!

Eric
--------------Just a signature------------------------
Ephesians 2:8-9, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith. And this, not from yourselves, it is the gift of God. Not by works, so that no one can boast."
Kazekun
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SirNukes
Cow Master
Posts: 2111
(6/16/03 4:18 pm)
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Re: Semantics or not?
Well, I wanted to know because you like Graham, of course. :)

Just a question.. is it right to try to gain access to the unsaved by saying things which are untrue? (I'm now thinking about the thing he said about Jews to Nixon.) I'm just curious to see your thoughts on that one. If you don't know the thing about the Jews, I'm sure you can look it up on the net


-Brent

Kaze9999
friend
Posts: 1091
(6/16/03 10:58 pm)
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Re: Semantics or not?
First tell me how you feel about Paul's comments on women having to have long hair, keep their heads covered, and not talk in church. :)

My point being, I do not have to approve, agree, or understand everything a man does or says in order to believe that he is being actively used by God.

Eric
--------------Just a signature------------------------
Ephesians 2:8-9, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith. And this, not from yourselves, it is the gift of God. Not by works, so that no one can boast."
Kazekun
Paladin of Tholuxe Paells
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