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Hugemon 
Posts: 146
(17/5/02 22:18)
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 The trouble with GOLDBERG
...at least for *me*, is that I see a LOT of potential in him. He undoubtedly has excellent "brand-name" recognition, as well as some newly-aquired submission skills, along with a very powerful image.
I just think that wCw pushed him too far, a little too soon.
With one mis-placed kick, he eliminated Bret Hart- one of the more-recently established greats- from wrestling forever.
Your typical "marks" might have been impressed, but all of us "smarks" realize that one sign of the best wrestlers is that while their moves *look* incredibly punishing & their blows very very "stiff", they only very rarely, if EVER actually injure their opponents.
His "Winning Streak" gimmick was poorly chosen, IMHO. You can't build up any tension in a storyline without its conclusion being somewhat in doubt. With the Streak gimmick, there was NO doubt, because for wCw to continue using it, Goldberg could NEVER lose.
The latest that I've heard re: Goldberg, was that he had reached a verbal contract with Jerry Jarrett's NWA Wrestling.
I wish him luck, and I would honestly like to see him go up against many of today's big-name stars.
Just without any "I CANNOT EVER LOSE" gimmick.
| Behold, a pale horse, and the man that sat on him was Death | |
| ...and HELL followed with him. |
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TI0 
Posts: 18
(18/5/02 3:38)
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Re: Goldberg.
Goldy also injured Scott Steiner, fracturing his cheekbone. You may remember Scotty having to wear that bat-mask sort of thingy. There were also a few other guys Goldy injured.
As for Goldy's streak, I didn't mind him squashing nobodies like Al Greene and Glacier, but when he entered the midcard they should've begun to develop depth to his character.
His first loss should've come against Raven for the U.S. Title. It would've been much better had the Flock cost Goldberg his Title-chance. Then they could've spent the next month with Goldy going through the Flock to get Raven - at a PPV.
Similarly with Hall and Hogan. It would've been better had Hall - as the first real topliner Goldy fought - to beat him, and then taken-out the next month to develop a Goldy-Hall feud.
Subsequently, when Goldy fought Hogan (and it should've been a PPV) somebody should've cost Goldy the bout. In fact, they should've run the Stone Cold angle. Bischoff should've appointed a guest referee to the Title Bout who screwed Goldy.
Then Goldy could've spent the next three months fighting the nWo to get to Hogan, Bischoff trying to screw him at every turn.
This would've grounded Goldy so he got some much-required losses to test his mettle, but it also would've built anticipation within the fans for when he finally won it.
In fact, these feuds, which would've taken 6 months, could've steadied WCW's declining ratings at the time. From memory, it was around this period that they were starting to drop.
Add Sting and his quest to destroy the nWo as a subplot, and you would've had six months which wrote themselves.
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Hugemon
Posts: 150
(19/5/02 11:22)
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perhaps...
...but I think that the facts speak for themselves.
The wCw, during their last couple of years, simply didn't *have* much to speak of in their favor, when it came to either imagination or direction.
You just laid out what I think would've been an excellent substitute for their failed efforts. However, YOU have *vision*.
YOU *know* how the fans tension should be built-up, how to get characters *over*, & how storylines should be developed to a conclusion, in preparation for the NEXT ones.
wCw lost all of that.
Looking at The 4Horsemen phenomena & the original nWo, I would say that they had a little bit of it, but that it just didn't stick around.
I think that Eric Bischoff's attitude was responsible for a lot of wCw's temporary victory over the then-WWF. But he was a 2-edged sword, because his pride cut both ways. Bischoff gave out enormous amounts of money to "big name" personalities, who basically couldn't wrestle for $hit.
In short, he had no long-term *vision*. Just a quick-fix mentality.
Perhaps he saw all of the money going OUT at an amazing rate, and simply gave up. I'm not sure, but I think that he *could* have kept things together, if he had just kept at it.
Everybody makes mistakes. They are inevitable. The man who never makes a mistake isn't trying hard enough. The *KEY* thing is to LEARN from your mistakes.
I'm starting to feel like a broken record here, but to *me*, it all comes down to quality writing, or the lack thereof. Pro Wrestling is a story of emotions, acted out with various physical characters.
You can't break your piggy-bank on signing "big name" in-the-ring talent, because without good storylines, angles, & well-developed characters, those same big names will most likely only end up selling a few t-shirts to temporarily boost your marketing department before they go out of style, and you are forced to declare bankruptcy.
You need to pay attention to the writer's, because THEY are the people who can make or break your wrestling fed, with either a good & productive, or a weak & destructive, series of storylines.
It's not the UFC, or boxing, or football, where anything can happen at any time, & people tune in to watch things AS they are decided. In pro wrestling, everything is pre-decided, & most of the fans today seem to realize that, albeit with many exceptions.
I'll shut up on this topic for now. This is starting to get to me.
| Behold, a pale horse, and the man that sat on him was Death. |
| ...and HELL followed with him. |
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From Parts Unknown1
Posts: 19
(20/5/02 21:46)
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Re: perhaps...
I totally agree Huge Tarl. After all the shock and schlock is over, all that's left is wrestling. That's basically what's happening in Vince's little world right now. The *ahem* "attitude" has worn thin, the numbers are declining, and all that's really left are the hard core fans that actually would like to see WRESTLING. And all you really need to satisfy those types of fans is have guys with great in ring ability and tie that to compelling story lines. Just that simple. Look at what ECW did with basically a bunch of unknown midcarders.
Don't get me wrong. I can do without the ultra-violence and so called hardcore nature, a la New Jack, but Vince, are you listening? This isn't astro-physics here. Pardon me, but I just got to yell it:
HEY VINCE, GET SOME WRITERS THAT KNOW HOW TO WRITE!!!! Gosh, that felt good. Quit letting your darling daughter and son think they have the pulse of the fans down pat. Good grief, let Heyman be more involved. For crying out loud, Jim Cornette can be more compelling than this gar-baj. Just me talking here, but maybe it's actually time for some old school thinking.
I was interested to hear Vince say something quite similar with Bob Costas recently. He ACTUALLY mentioned the fact that athletic ability and good storylines MIGHT be what the fans want now. YA THINK?
Enough of my ranting for this moment....but there's always tomorrow.
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From Parts Unknown1
Posts: 20
(20/5/02 21:54)
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oops
I just realized I sorta went off on a tangent to the original thread notion. Goldberg. I just really think this guys heart isn't in the game, and that the attraction of wrestling only around 26 dates a year will see him sign with Jarrett's NWA PPV only fed. I'd sure like to see a match, say, a Hell in the Cell with Goldberg and Trip H though. And I agree with you guys, Goldberg's biggest problem was the storyline he was put in, and his adolescent behavior afterwards. If he would grow up a bit, have a good storyline, he could be really something. Kinda like Scott Hall. Scott coulda really been something, and was for a few minutes there. I almost think, like Scott, Goldberg might be his own worst enemy.
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TI0
Posts: 25
(24/5/02 9:01)
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Re: Scotty.
But at least Scotty sold and jobbed!
In fact, I was reading when he jobbed to Chris Jericho on WCW Nitro (if you recall that), it was unscripted! Scotty did it to help get Jericho over. About a week later (or earlier?) he jobbed to Hector Garza, (I think that was his name).
Have been reading about Scotty that he often bucks to help the lesser lights get over; when he fought Spike Dudley in his first WWF/nWo match, he wanted it to be seesawing, with Spike getting a lot of offensive in. But he was overruled and turned into a squash.
At the nWo's peak in WCW, Scotty did all the selling, and whenever the nWo lost, it was invariably Scotty under the pin. He was also the first top-liner to job to Goldberg, (unless you count Raven, who was more of a pathetic mid-carder at the time).
In the WWF/E, he did most of the selling and jobbing for the nWo.
Scotty is his own worst enemy, but at least he was selfless about his wrestling. If he was far more selfish, maybe he could've become a World Champion!
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From Parts Unknown1
Posts: 21
(24/5/02 14:39)
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Re: Scotty.
Silk, you just listed the reasons why I do like the guy, regardless of all the dribble I consistently read about him. Hall, from my viewpoint, worked just as hard to put another guy over as he might do so for himself, and that would make him a company man and team player in my book. And he sells an attack so great too, with that staggering about deal he does, bout as good as Flair in that department. As I've said various times before, I actually feel bad for the guy, such potential there, real shame. By all rights he coulda been a legend, but I think he'll mostly be remembered for his off camera path of self destruction.
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