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MMRPG discussion > EQMEDT > Why Monks complaining: Melee damage is useless 50+ |
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Zadkiel 
 (7/25/00 2:40 am) Reply |
Why Monks complaining: Melee damage is useless 50+ As a monk, I have real trouble getting a group. Lets say I go somewhere like Karnors, or Sebilis etc. I arrive, and a group is advertising 'Group needs a tank'. I send them a tell saying I would like to join them, and get the reply 'erm, I asked for a tank, not a monk'. Its the same everywhere. The only time I get welcomed into a group with open arms? On a Plane or Dragon run, because they need a monk to pull. The fact is, that melee damage in the 50+ game is irrelevant in the overall picture. When you are fighting mobs with 20,000+ hitpoints, the 1000 or so you can deal out in the time it takes the casters to nuke it to death counts for very little. What groups want, is protection for those casters. That means Lots of Hitpoints and high AC (to soak more, and make complete healing more efficient), Taunt, and stuns. That means Warriors, Paladins and Shadowknights. Monks, Rangers and Rogues, who are the low hps, low AC, high damage dealers of the game, simply dont fit a valid role in a high level group. Melee damage is useless in the overall picture, and they make damn inneficient tanks. Why have a rogue in a group? For scouting and for unlocking doors. They are the best at both of those, but the times a scout or a lockpicker is needed is limited. Why have a monk in a group? For pulling. Again they are the best at it, but firstly the design of the new high level zones is making pulling less and less of a necessity, and secondly, monks are scared, after some recent comments by Abashi about his feelings towards feign-pulling, that they are going to be hit with a second nerf to feign death. Why have a ranger in a group? Buggered if I know. Tracking maybe. ALL the melee classes need a massive ncrease in the melee damage they can do in the 50+ game to keep up with the fact that the 50+ mobs have a massive increase in the number of hitpoints they have. Sure, with the new Kunark weapon and the new skillcaps (for those that got decent skill increases), plus the new 50+ damage tables, melee damage has increased.. but not by enough. Abashi's statement that 'monks rock!' was probably based upon seeing a tester with a level 60 monk, using some uber-weapon that there will probably only ever be 1 or 2 of on a server, putting out thousands of points of damage per minute. Firstly, these top end monk weapons are extremely rare, and secondly, at level 60, that monk isnt going to be fighting anything with less than 20,000 hps, so even if he can put out a few thousand damage, it is still a small percentage of the total. Zadkiel Hopeseeker, Xegony.
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Meddik
 (8/14/00 9:33 am) Reply |
Re: Why Monks complaining: Melee damage is useless 50+
I am not up into my 50s yet, but in the 40-45 game, I see Melee being used more and more as the primary source of damage. It is very common to find a group with 1 healer, 1 tank, 1 crowd control (Cleric/Warrior/Enchanter as the "Ideal") and 3 other melee classes.
My groups rarely rely on nukes to win a battle. I almost always prefer to see Kicks and Backstabs finish the monster off. Maybe I am an oddity, but I like high damage people who never run out of mana. Of course, this assumes that the brunt of the damage soaking is going to the war/pal/sk. But you only need 1 of them. Damage dealers stack well, unlike healers, crowd control or damage absorption. Orbis Honesti Guild, Bristlebane Server
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Dvor 
Monk Posts: 1 (9/19/00 11:14 pm) Reply |
Not True Zad I have both a 51 Wizard and a 53 Monk. I quit my wizard long ago because magical damage is rarely a factor in high level battle. The only time you *need* it is for Gods and Dragons. It's not fun to play a class that is only wanted to taxi and for Gods/Dragons once a week. Log parsing shows that my Monk does about 2 to 3 times the damage my wizard does per mob on average. The only way the wizard wins is AE and that doesn't really win due to downtime and grouping restrictions (enc req'd). Also, there are MOBs that are completely unresistable to all magic. Verant added the first in hate and lots more in sky. I assure you that melee damage is the largest damage component by far in high level battles. What's the most critical factor? Not crowd control, it's slow spells from shaman and enchanters. Imagine this: one 6 person group, clearing all the disco in Sebelis and then waiting for spawns -- no enchanter, no wizard, monk the only pure melee. Sure, warrior HP really makes CH efficient, but monk damage and pull-moderating ability makes them far more acceptable to oddly configured groups than a warrior. A warrior demands a full support team of cleric, enchanter, and evac'er. A monk? Hell, just a shaman for slow is enough -- he certainly has no use for an evac'er. Viva la Monk! Dvor of Neriak, Tunare |
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Malizek
Monk Posts: 1 (10/23/00 11:55 am) Reply |
Re: Why Monks complaining: Melee damage is useless 50+ I may seem like somebody who doesn't know what hes talkin 'bout because my monks only 9th level, but i have noticed the increase in groups askin for monks on my server... i mean i went on a plane raid with my druid and there were 12 monks in the zone, all in groups so my group had to stick with a super heavily buffed warrior to pull, take in damage, and dish it out as well! Also i noticed that the monks do more dmg than warriors with 200 str and a weapons that normally do 70 dmg... they were doing like 200 dmg per hit... just my 2 sp... Asta! Malizek Lothlarian |
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Leline
Monk Posts: 40 (12/17/00 11:06 am) Reply |
Re: Why Monks complaining: Melee damage is useless 50+ As Dvor said, in regular battles, mele is used mostly. In uber-mob battles, magic takes them out. Example of a God: my guild fighting Ixblat Fer (level 63), quads for 575, bashes for 200+. We are mostly 45 to 54, so we were expectiong a few deaths. Tanks almost all linkdead or dead in 30 seconds, Ixblat at 2/3 health. In step the wizzards, druids, and mages to burn down 22k hp in about 30 more seconds, and only a couple of them dead. Even after killing him a few times (and with fewer people) and getting the strategies down, the tanks were not the main damage dealers. Example of a regular fight: Efreeti raid. Paladin, monk rogue, druid, chanter, cleric. Druid could hardly land a DOT befor the mobs were dead. He just sat around doing regrowth and thorns. enchanter slowed stuff, cleric healed after every 2 or 3 mobs. No magical damage was even used, hehe. ---Leline 51 Monk, Mystical Fate, Terris-Thule. |
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Gryz Goatstabber
Monk Posts: 2 (2/11/01 1:52 pm) Reply |
Err.... Melee damage useless? Melee damage is the ONLY thing useful on high level mobs... Casters cant even hit mobs... High melee damage (Rogues) useless? I saw a 60 rogue outdamage every single caster in the raid combinded. I really, really would like to see what you say to this... |
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Lapidaria
Monk Posts: 1 (3/6/01 12:22 pm) Reply |
Re: Why Monks complaining: Melee damage is useless 50+ Monks useless in higher levels? NOT. I have a high level monk, and a high level enchanter. Let me tell you, once you get to high levels, there is NO need for nukers. Go to velious and see how long nukers last against the high level mobs there. We get resisted CONSTANTLY, when the mobs are not flat out IMMUNE. Sure, nukers can dish out big single blows, but by the time they have dumped their entire mana bar into damage output, the tank has STILL outdamaged them, assuming he has been kept alive by a competant cleric. Once upon a time this was not true, but with all the new weapons and armors from velious and knark before that, melee classes can dish out MUCH more damage during a fight than a caster. Lapidaria Manyshapes Enchanter Triad Continuum Luclin Sharrah Dragonsdottir Monk Descendants of the Dragon Druzzil Ro |
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Poke Holz
Monk Posts: 1 (7/22/01 3:49 pm) Reply |
Re: Why Monks complaining: Melee damage is useless 50+ You are foolish if you think that melee damage is worthless compared to magical. How many times can a rogue backstab before he runs out of mana? How many times can a monk kick before he runs out of mana? How many times can you hit the mob? For example in velious, when fighting mobs who have 1 million+ hp a 60th level monk is going to be fighting for a loooong time. Where as a 60th level wizard is going to nuke til he is oom (totalling out at around 20k dmg if he is VERY lucky). Now 20k dmg seems like a LOT but when it moves the mob's HP by less than a quarter of a bubble, then you have to med for 10 minutes (maybe 5-6 w/ c2 and bard songs) its not that great. In the mean time you got monks, rogues, warriors, rangers etc constantly beating on the mob (at this level most likely with some very nice haste and weapons). A group full of melee will EASILY outdamage a group full of casters. |
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