onetwentytwo Roswell Fan
Posts: 2
(5/11/01 6:42 am)
Question...
I've heard the name TicTac in various spoilers and can not recall who this character is. People have mentioned the character possibly being in Departure but I can't remember who it is. Could someone enlighten me?
Marice LVCM Las Vegas Crew Member
Posts: 326
(5/11/01 8:41 am)
Re: Question...
Tic Tac is thought to be a different alien and not Nasedo at all. He's the guy who coould morph into other people, but he always ate some tic tacs before he shape shifted. So there has been some speculation that he may be back in the season finale. Guess we'll find out soon enough!
I think he first appeared in "Independence Day," from last season. Anyone remember exactly when we first saw the tic tac guy?
Re: Question...
Marice, it was ID. The first time we saw anyone was at the library at the end of Blind Date. Then we saw Tic Tac again in Sexual Healing and Crazy.
This almost makes sense (which means it probably isn't true! ). Nasedo never did the Tic Tac thing, Tic Tac was in town way before Tess and Nasedo were, and in The White Room, Tess made the comment that Nasedo had never left her alone for very long before.
Could Tic Tac be the shapeshifter who was sent to protect the dupes?
Re: Speculation and Spoilers on The Departure
Has anyone read Star2000Monkey's report on The Departure? The wild feed was just about to air (24 hours late) when I went to bed this morning. When I got up and tried to check on the results...fanforum seems to have crashed.
In case no one wants to post too much information on this board, would someone please just say whether or not she was happy at the end, or send me an e-mail at arcticlurker@hotmail.com :-)
Thanks. I don't think I can go into this ep without knowing what happened.
Las Vegas Crew Member
Posts: 412
(5/20/01 10:12 am)
Re: Speculation and Spoilers on The Departure
Thanks for posting the link up, Vicki! As usual I don't read past "Best Lines" but I already know how this is going to turn into another dissapointment for me. But, I did read the "Quickie Questions" on the bottom and I can't believe Katims made the WHOLE M/T real and she isn't even dead! I should believe it though, after what he did to HOM. That B*STARD!!
Re: Speculation and Spoilers on The Departure
Vicki: Thanks for the link. I'd rather know the truth going into the ep and save myself that slap in the face.
Maria: I'm with you on this one. How the heck could Jason Kataims allow this to happen. Star said she has found out there were two ways for the ending to go and they chose this one so that they could clear things up in November sweeps. It seems there are enough loopholes to make things right, or at least right for the Dreamers, so like a complete fool, I'll tune in next year to see if fix things. (I just remembered that you were partly unspoiled so I erased some specifics.)
I guess I'v gotten used to pain...I've let Joss Whedon yank my chain for five seasons over Buffy and Angel. Grrrr argh.
Re: Speculation and Spoilers on The Departure
Can I ask why you guys are so upset? I read Starmonkey's review (for the first time - I never usually do) and it looks like it's going to be good. Not enough M/L? The fact they cut the FMax parts? Just curious.
BTW - Neeners, I guess we can pretty much assume I'm psychic now - how long ago did I call this one? A month - two months?
Re: Speculation and Spoilers on The Departure
SPECIFIC SPOILAGE. Please avert your eyes if you are only partially spoiled.
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Midwest Max: I can only answer for myself but here she goes. My biggest problem with this episode is that we are left to believe that the sex and the baby are real. I think that many of the Dreamer types find that while Max has learned his lesson by the end of this episode, the fact he had to learn it by having sex with someone he's actually kinda disliked and distrusted for much of the time he's known her, and the fact that she is apparently having his child...well that's just too much for most of us.
As a couple, Max and Liz have been wounded beyond repair. Perhaps they will find a way to trust each other again...in real life it happens. The problem is that the magic is gone. I think that that magic appealed to a certain type of person...a person who believes in certain ideals, a person who believed that Max and Liz transcended the norm, that they were special, unique and just for each other.
Now they are simply too real, just another normal couple like the countless others in mediocre TV land.
My second biggest problem is that we've been waiting for 12 whole months for the writers to make this better. As long ago as last summer, we were told by producers and writers that sex with Tess would not happen and that Max and Liz would get back together. So, I guess, besides the fact that the hero was turned into a spineless philanderer and that a relationship like no other on TV has been tainted, there is the feeling of betrayal that we were pretty much lied to.
I loved the character of Max Evans and I'm pretty much willing to forgive him is iniquities...but I mourn the loss of his specialness. Now he's just a normal guy and there are lots and lots of normal guys on TV. I'll still be watching next year in the hope that Max and Liz get back together but the special relationship they had has been relegated to a Dawson's Creek type of relationship...and there are lots of those as well.
My third problem is that there are still so many loose ends and I don't know whether it's sloppy writing or simply stingy writing...as in saving things for next season that should have been addressed this season. The Future Max scene that was cut is just one of them.
So to sum up...I 'm not disappointed by the quantity of Max and Liz, I'm disappointed in the quality of Max and Liz. Does any of this make sense?
Las Vegas Crew Member
Posts: 848
(5/21/01 1:09 pm)
Re: Speculation and Spoilers on The Departure
I have to agree with Karen. The episode sounds like it will be exciting and very emotional. I am disappointed that they are making the Sex and Baby real.
I think we need to put ourselves in Max's shoes. Think of what he has been through this season. First he thinks he may have a shot at getting the girl of his dreams back, then he finds her in bed with Kyle, her ex-boyfriend. Although we know they didn't do anything, Max doesn't. He feels betrayed by her. He has no idea why she did that to him. Second, everytime he trys to get her back she just kept pushing him farther away, until one day he just gave up. Of course that is when Liz decided it might be ok if they got back together. Finally, everyone starts to turn on him(Tess made sure of that), so he only had Tess left to run to. At this point he is so vunurable, that he is easily suduced by Tess. That is when he makes a bad judgement call and sleeps with her. I kinda see Tess as a re-bound thing for Max. She was there and he needed the comfort. It's just to bad he wasn't able to see her for the Evil manipulative Alien she really is.
I know you guys are probably throwing fruit at me now, but just try to see it through Max's eyes and not what we see on TV. Love is blind and this is a good example of what happens when you lose someone you love, you lose yourself. Max hasn't been the Max we all grew to love in Season 1 after what he thought he saw in liz's bedroom. It's a long road to recovery. Hopefully Max is on that path.
I would love to see Max groveling to Liz in the first few episodes of next season, then have them working together to solve more about where the Aliens are from and why they are here.
OK! I will step down off the soap box now!
Vicki
Las Vegas Crew Member
VisitAlien Encountersfor exclusive photos from on location!
Re: Speculation and Spoilers on The Departure Arctic Lurker - I totally understand your disappointment. I think the whole baby thing was a mistake - hell, I'll go back a whole year and say the whole Tess thing was a mistake. She wasn't a necessary character and they did nothing this year to build on that character. But I agree with Vicki about all that Max has been through resulting in his actions. It's not what I wanted to see either, and I miss the magical moments between Max and Liz. I used to watch last years' eps and say, wow, I wish guys like that were real. But, I think the swing to the sci-fi end of things killed that. The whole FMax thing shouldn't have been dragged out past the February sweeps, and certainly not past the end of the year. Curious - does anyone know if Max gets a flash of FMax when he kisses Liz? Guess I'll find out in a few hours.
But, at least Tess has been revealed to be the cheap manipulative tramp we all thought she was. So long, your highness
Re: Speculation and Spoilers on The Departure
Vicki and Midwest Max: My lengthy essay was pretty much an attempt to let you see why so many dreamers are devistated by the way this is ending. I'm glad you
My personal disappointment is not nearly as profound as that of many, and I'm in complete agreement with what you say. I've posted a lot of defenses of Max on the fanforum boards because I can completely see why he did everything he did this season. II'll even go back to the trauma from White Room that was never totally addressed. I mean they sent him to a psychologist but the doctor can't help if the patient can't be truthful.
'm one of those who believes that he had to make this journey into his alien side. He had to learn to embrace all of who he is. I accept his need to investigate his former life. I'm just mostly unhappy that it had to take a whole season and that the writers felt they had to go the sex/baby is real route. I would have been just fine if that part had been a memory implant of some kind.
Now this sex/baby issue may be addressed next season. We know from Departure that Tess can both implant memories and also make you forget others. (I really wish they had done more with the potential of this obviously powerful character. Hopefully we'll learn more about her next year.) There is a chance to show that Max is not really a father and is indeed still a virgin. Do I think it will happen? Probably not, but I bet that is the carrot that will be dangled in front of the large Dreamer fanbase to keep them watching next season.
I felt his pain all this year as Liz continually pushed him away. Yes, it is certain that any adult, let alone a 17 year old boy would be destroyed by what Max has had placed on his doorstep. The problem, I feel, is that Max has been held to a much higher standard than anyone else. Our expectations are that he is a cut above than mere mortals, adn thus when he falls, he falls much farther. Now that may not be fair, but it is the way he was introduced to us...a boy who would sacrifice all for the girl he loved.
I've been quite upbeat about most of this season and I'm not among those who are devistated by the finalé. I will certainly keep watching and I'm confident that Max and Liz, both as individuals and as a couple, will become stronger for their trials. I know that Liz will understand because she is Liz...and she is both special and strong. If she wasn't who she is, she wouldn't have attracted Max in the first place.
Oh, and I'm all for the Sci Fi, if it's well done. It was the reason I tuned into the first episode. (Of course by the end of the intro in the Pilot, I was beyond hooked on M/L.) I've been into Sci Fi since the mid fifties when I started reading Tom Swift books in school. :LOL:
Las Vegas Crew Member
Posts: 851
(5/21/01 7:20 pm)
Re: Speculation and Spoilers on The Departure
Artic Lurker: Well said!
This is what I love about our board. We can all state our feelings and others listen and respond with their point of view without bashing. I love everyone's opinion, even if they are diffrerent from mine.
Vicki
Las Vegas Crew Member
VisitAlien Encountersfor exclusive photos from on location!
Departure
I agree with the last few posts. I have been crying this entire season, but when you think about what Max has been through, you have to feel for him. Time and time again he was pushed away by Liz and she pratically shoved him into her arms. I love Max & Liz as much as anybody and I am looking forward to season three, I just hope that all the loose ends get tied up and that the rumor that i heard about JK not seperating them again once they put them back together is true
Here's to season three, hopefully without Tess.
re: everything
This is the first time that I've posted, but after reading this particular thread and the very detailed thread on Departure, and then watching the actual episode, a few thoughts occurred to me.
While I do see where the super-naturalness of the Max-Liz relationship is what the Dreamers are mourning now that Departure has made the baby and the sex real (at least for now), I do not necessarily agree that the Season One Max-Liz relationship is out of the show's reach. Bear with me, I'm going to give you all a mini English Lit lesson since that's what I do (teach English). In most stories, sci-fi, romance, whatever, the hero almost always needs to fall from grace at some point. (I know they're trashy, but even in Harlequin Romance novels, which thrive on other-worldly love, have a fallen hero who has to earn back the heroine's love.) And, as many have already stated, it's plausible and understandable for why Max has become who he has become. Therefore, maybe, just maybe, Season Two, with all of its heartache and destroyed relationships was a way for us to enter into Season Three where everything that has been put into motion may become more complex. This is part of something in storytelling known as "myth making."
I know. This still doesn't return us to where some of us want to be--with the uniqueness of Season One.
While "Roswell" is not strickly science fiction nor the "Dawson's Creek" of New Mexico, it is creating its own mythology. And, isn't that what every interview with Jason Katims about Season Two said it was trying to establish? So, now that we've got a basic myth and character baggage, we end the season with Departure which, personally, I thought was rather well done. No, we didn't get the complete mindwarp of everyone and everything that we wanted. No, all of the loose ends weren't tied up. However, all of this is part of a mythos (there's a decent article somewhere about "Buffy" and "X-Files" that explains how mythology works for a television series). With this blend of mythology and characters who have really been through a great deal over the past two seasons, maybe season three will allow the writers to fully explore some of what we spoiled ones have read rumors about.
If it can take other shows seven seasons before they have two central character marry, then maybe we should give Katims and the rest of the "Roswell" crew a break. A lot has happened this season. We're left with mostly fleshy characters: a Liz who has been through it all for Max (which she nicely catalogued for us in Departure), a Max who has been through even more and has had his world torn apart numerous times, an Isabel who lost TWO men--one because of someone she considered to be a friend--and who found out that in her past life, she was a traitor, a Michael who has always had baggage but also finally learned to love, a Maria who has moved beyond the quirky best friend to being one of the more stable figures in the group, a Jim Valenti who went from searching for aliens to losing his job for them, and a Kyle who is not the jock jerk he used to be but has really become one of the core group in a way that he couldn't have before (and maybe more so now that Alex is dead). Now, thanks to UPN, we have an impending Season three which doesn't have a whole lot to create in the way of basic structure. And, with all of the questions that we have, with all of the loose ends, with all of the possibilities out there, who knows what Season Three will do? I guess what I'm saying is, don't be too hasty. There's a lot that could happen.
Las Vegas Crew Member California Branch
Posts: 347
(5/22/01 4:33 am)
Re: re: everything
Well said, okmulgee. I rarely post on threads related to episodes because I'm not as up to date on all the nuances as many people are. The dreamers on this board, most of whom I consider my friends, have lamented throughout this season about how things weren't going their way. I kept quiet, but I believed that if everything always went the way we wanted, it wouldn't really be good drama.
From being exposed to spoilerish information, I thought that there wouldn't be much point to a third season because I thought all the pods would have returned to their home planet. But it turns out, all except Tess are still in Roswell.
As far as Tess is concerned, I had been led to believe she had been killed off. After watching the episode, it appears she returned to her planet with her unborn child. It appears that there will be a story line where Max tries to save that child, since he said as much.
At first I didn't understand why they trashed the jeep, but then I realized they were attempting to make it look as if they had all been killed in an accident, to explain their disappearance.
I would think the dreamers would be happy with this episode. Max got back together with Liz, Micheal consummated his relationship with Maria, and Tess was shown to be the evil person that we thought she was. Is a romance between Kyle and Isabel in the works? In emotional scenes some of the loose ends were tied up, e.g. Max finally learning that Liz had not slept with Kyle. (By the way, I have always felt that the euphemism of "sleeping with" for "having sex with" or "making love with" is silly. People have slept all night with a member of the opposite sex without having sex, and people have had sex with people they didn't sleep with.)
Well I've been as long winded as I've been since I wrote the Fanfic called "Roswell, the Movie". Hope you all have enjoyed "Departure" as much as I did - the best show this season.
Iceman Melts Me Obsessed Roswellian
Posts: 262
(5/23/01 6:06 am)
Re: re: everything
OK.. I have a question.. does anyone know if EdR will be back next season.. Tess may have gone back but Ava is still on Earth... So they could bring Ava back to the Podsters.... In TEOTW FM said that they needed to be together because of their powers.. so wouldn't they need Ava? I don't think Liz even with her powers can fill in for the alien... I have to say.. EdR did a good job in Departure... her acting skills are getting better.. slowly but surely!!!
Question...
Re: Question...
Re: Speculation and Spoilers on The Departure
re: everything
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