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Re: Language project stage one: alphabet, pronunciation
I like the short sounds you have provided, but I believe that the long one's should change.
Here's my idea:
LONG
á = like rate or the e in cafe. The a sound in cart is the same as a short o.
é = as in feel
í = as in pile feel would be a long e.
ó = "oh" this is ok as is.
ú = "boom" this can stay the same as well.
Some other sounds are:
the "oo" in book
the "oi" in point
the "ou" in pound
the sound that precedes the last l in "little"
and the sound that precedes the r in cater.
If you notice, my name Earl has both these sounds
Re: Language project stage one: alphabet, pronunciation
The vowel substitutes you proposed are so totally ENGLISH! This language is still 40% romance and maybe 3% English, so eh, yeah =/ We should know the arabic vowels... I know a few distinctive arabic consonants, but no vowels...
C is useless, i know that, but I see it as a romance influence. If you really hate this we could have c and ç, provided you can easily type that on your qwerty keyboard.
I personally HATE the letter J. I only used it to present the "dzh" sound. Or we could have it as "zh" and have dj for "dzh". Maybe tahts a better idea.
A welsh influence is nice, ads yet another language to the list, eh.
the NG thing, i gave a bad example for that. NG as in thiNG.
the R sounds... well, I can't pronounce it for ya can I, anyway, it's the best R that exists it's in dutch also, although people from the netherlands use an almost german R
If you cant pronounce a rolling r, you'll have to practice no really, would this be a problem for many people? Besides, how many times do you think you'll pronounce this language
X rocks, but it's made useless by not giving it a distinctive sound, but a combination of two sounds. I want to put it to better use
For the vowel differences, see Andrew's post.. although there are still minor corrections to be made:
a = like "cat" not entirely true.. more like "categorie" in french.
u = I had the "bun" one in mind.
á = more like parAde (in french again)
That being said, thanks for your contributions, i didn't expect it actually
Re: Language project stage one: alphabet, pronunciation
Earl, I don't understand how the a in "cart" can be the same as "o" in "pot". I don't know much aboot Canadian pronoonciation but if that's the case, how do you tell the difference between the words "part" and "pot" and "cot" and "cart"
As for the diphthongs you suggested (like "oi"), I think we should have something like them. But not so English-sounding. We could have a sound like the French word "oeil" (or Icelandic "au" ) instead of an Englishy "oi" sound. And we could have a sound like "ou" in "pound", although maybe more like Dutch "ui". We could even include the Dutch "ij" sound, but then Triáni might sound a bit camp..
As for the pronunciation of "J", I'd prefer a soft "j", like French. Or even a German "j", like "y" in "yacht". And we could use the character "y" for the German "ü" sound (like the Greek ypsilon)?
As for distinctive Arabic vowel sounds.. there aren't any. There are three short vowels (a, i, u), three long vowels (aa, ii, uu) and as far as I know, two diphthongs (ay, aw). Oh, and they don't tend to write the short vowels.
I think it'd be nice if Triáni flowed nicely. I think Welsh achieves this by "mutating" consonants - so instead of saying "yn nghymru", they change the last letter of "yn" to "ng" - so they write "yng nghymru" - much easier to pronounce Just an idea.
Re: Language project stage one: alphabet, pronunciation
Quote:As for the diphthongs you suggested (like "oi" , I think we should have something like them. But not so English-sounding. We could have a sound like the French word "oeil" (or Icelandic "au" ) instead of an Englishy "oi" sound. And we could have a sound like "ou" in "pound", although maybe more like Dutch "ui". We could even include the Dutch "ij" sound, but then Triáni might sound a bit camp..
the "oi" sound we could create by just putting o and i together, so... we don't have an ou/ui, thats true. If we need them badly, we can perhaps use sort of an accent thingy: ô, ű
the ei/ij sound would be a bit ridiculous i dun like that sound anyways.
Quote:As for the pronunciation of "J", I'd prefer a soft "j", like French. Or even a German "j", like "y" in "yacht". And we could use the character "y" for the German "ü" sound (like the Greek ypsilon)?
I was thinking of using I for the yacht sound, as we would use U for W. so i think we should have a zh sound. The y thing is a good idea.
And the flowing language thing, we better discuss that in a later stage
I haven't used the ^'s since they looked a bit silly, often. So i used combinations like Gh, Kh, Dh stuff like that. They should not be "combinations" when the actual alphabet is tehre though. The alphabet should have different characters for all of them sounds (xcept for the ´vowel stuff of course)
Re: Language project stage one: alphabet, pronunciation
just an idea;
I was surfin around at www.omniglot.com to find some arabic examples to base the alphabet on, when i stumbled onto this:
Quote:Most Etruscan inscriptions are written in horizontal lines from left to right, but some are boustrophedon (running alternately left to right then right to left).
this boustrophedon thingy is actually a great idea, both easier to write and read. With a PC though, things are a bit different.... We could allow any direction (left, right, boustrothingy) and have a character that indicates the direction. Just an idea. Gives the language a special character.
Re: Language project stage one: alphabet, pronunciation
You all raise some interesting points. Unfotunately, I don't know as much as I would like about other languages, so I guess I apologize for my Canadianesque suggestions.
By the way, I do like the zh symbol, Sander. We could just use j though, as Andrew pointed out. I know a good link for pronunciation of foreign sounds....
Re: Language project stage one: alphabet, pronunciation
useful website
i think we've got the alphabet sorted.. almost
from the .doc:
Quote:
cAt (EN), mEttre (FR)
i don't think "cat" is anything like "mettre", unless you're australian
Quote:
As above but deep in the throat (Arabic CH)
i thought we were having the arabic H? it's like you described though. i think.
Quote:
LLanfair.......... [written] TL, tl
i think this transcription could be misleading - it's not pronounced "tl". it's a..... *searches google*.... voiceless alveolateral approximant . so basically an unvoiced (or aspirated according to some sites) version of the english "L". So i think that "LH, lh" would be a better transcription.
Re: Language project stage one: alphabet, pronunciation
yeh well, that's "approximate". mEttre is the correct sound.
arabic H sounds a bit like german CH, which is why i wrote ch... a bit misleading, sorry.
I know it's not Tl, but you said lots of people pronounced it Tl so i used that, since it more or less aproaches the correct sound. I can use another thingy though, doesn't matter. Im currently "drawing" up some sort of prototype alphabet. It looks arabic but it's not the same. I tried to make the letters somewhat recognisable.
And that website you linked to contains horrible errors... 'vrijhijd' should be vrijheid for example :0
Re: Language project stage one: alphabet, pronunciation
Okay, i made this lil alphabet. I used a "stylish" brush for the arabic look, but thats about the only stuff that resembles arabic. The letters are more or less recognisable (most of them) if you look carefully.
every consonant has a "mouth", in which theres room for the aforegoing vowel (if any).
I already made a font, which was easier than the feianovedo one since i could just import the bitmaps and convert them, so yeah.
To keep it readable (small vowel thingies!) a minimum font size of 18 is advised, preferably higher.
Two vowels after eachother require a space between them, else they overlap almost completely. if a word ends in a vowel, add two spaces for the same reason.
This is because vowels do not make the cursor go any forward (actually a very tiny little bit) so they can be placed in the "mouths" of the consonants. Takes a bit getting used to, but it's the best solution i think.
Since the alphabet has 33 letters, there's a few problems:
the Eth sound is written with ( alt+0208 )
the Thorn sound is written with ( alt + 0222 )
the Gh sound (dutch gh) is written with ( alt + 0338 )
the Ch sound is written by typing W/w
the Kh sound (arabic h) is written by typing H
the Tl/Lh (welsh LL) sound is written by typing µ ( alt +0181 )
the Ng sound is written by typing ń ( alt + 0209 )
the Rh sound is written by typing ® ( alt + 0174 )
the glottal stop (') sound is written by typing '
the rest is written as they are represented. What's you think?
Re: Language project stage one: alphabet, pronunciation
okay Ive changed the fonts a bit;
there are two now. a low quality font that can be used at normal point sizes (readable starting from 8pt).
This is called "Triani LowUPM" sander.domainmultitude.co...iloupm.ttf
then there is the normal font which has also become a bit bigger and is readable starting from 16pt. This one's called "Triani" sander.domainmultitude.com/triani.ttf
hmm, i think we need a character to place between vowels. Something that isn't pronounced, like H in other languages often. That way some vowels (for example the I in Trián) won't be floating around, but they'll actually have a "mouth" thingy to rest in
it's in dutch also, although people from the netherlands use an almost german R 
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