HelenMD Moderator
Posts: 103
(4/16/03 2:52 am) Reply
A topic to boost the board
Is being satanic something that some people are and some people just are not and never can be? I suppose this could just be a good old nature/nurture debate. But does anyone think that satanism is something you are just predisposed to being or is it something anyone can take on?
(I by no means intend to suggest by this that Satanists are an elite because I don't believe that anyway.)
Dani Registered User
Posts: 68
(4/16/03 7:53 pm) Reply
Re: A topic to boost the board
Well I Personally Think That Anyone Can Become A Satanist, IF They Are Willing To Look At Things From A Different Perspective, A lot Of People Have Been Force-Fed Christian Beliefs And It Has Brainwashed Them Into Believing That, That Is The "Right Choice" And Heaven And Hell Are Actual Places People Go To Afterlife, I Don't Think Anyone In This Mortal Realm Is Capable Of Knowing The "Truth" However Satanism Is A Damn Honest Religion, Unlike Christianity Which Thrives On Hypocrisy.
But I Do Think That A Satanist Is Something Anyone Can Become, If They Are Willing To Learn. Everything On Television, Magazines And Newspapers About Christianity Is Dismissing Satanism As The "Ultimate Evil" Which We All Know Is Not Necessarily True, It Is All Propaganda, Brainwashing The Individuals, A lot Like Adolf Hitler's Third Reich.
Re: A topic to boost the board
I have differing views on this subject than the vast majority that I have discussed this with.
I think that Satanists have the Satanic instincts in them when they are born ALTHOUGH it is hidden. They are not truely Satanists until they reach an age where the individual can act like an individual, stand on their own two feet, think for themselves. Your either born a follower or a leader, the latter is where the true Satanist emerges (of course not all leaders are satanists).
Registered User
Posts: 27
(6/25/03 10:38 am) Reply
Re: A topic to boost the board
Satanists are born, NOT made. LaVey said it, and he was absolutely right. Conversion is ridiculous, because it just gives someone another set of beliefs and values that they hold no stock in. Whereas if someone FEELS something, and does genuinely believe it, your'e on a winner. They need a wee shove in the right direction, and they're away. Can Satanists evolve? Yes. Can they be created? No.
Registered User
Posts: 142
(7/30/03 4:25 pm) Reply
Re: A topic to boost the board
Quote:I think that Satanists have the Satanic instincts in them when they are born ALTHOUGH it is hidden.
Do You Believe That Our Parents, Siblings etc. Have Satanic Instincts? Even If It Is Not Shown...Even If They Say They Are 100% Xian, Do You Think There Is Some Satanic Instincts Inside Them Somewhere? Or Is It Just A Few Born With Satanic Instincts?
Re: A topic to boost the board
When I say satanic instincts I mean the ability in the future and as we grow to be able to decide what we want and to be able to question what a lot of others just breath in, for example religion.
Re: A topic to boost the board
Hrm well it depends on how you look at it. Every human could have 'satanic potential' that can be awakened. If thats the case then everone could be a satanist. I bet the elitists would cringe at that statement.
However if you are saying that only certain individuals have what it takes then the question becomes less clear. Is it genetic, environmental or spiritual? To take it case by case is the simplest approach:
Genetic:
Parents do not neccesarily have 'satanic potential' but posses the genes that they will pass on to their offspring. The genes combine to make a satanist. (Not very plausable but who knows.)
Environmental:
Something about the way the child is raised 'creates' a satanist. This can be someone of intelligence rebelling at 1st and then finding his own way from a bad start. This would suggests the parents weren't satanic. Or parents raised the child to question everything and to absorb as much from life as it possibly can. This could indicate some 'satanic potential' in the parents or just random chance.
Spiritual:
A satanist is just born that way. Something in the soul clicks and satanism is for you. Parents have little to nothing to do with it.
On the other hand this could all be utter bollocks. I'm writing sections of my thesis and wanted to write something not in physics speak.
Magistrate Stu
Magistrate Ellaway
'Jesus saves but satan catches the rebound, he shoots, he SCORES!'
Magistrate Society Of The Onyx Star
www.societyonyxstar.org
Re: A topic to boost the board
as much as i like look into satanism i am not nor ever could be a satanist!!! i have nothing against satanists but its not me its not who i am, i just don't want to be the best and trample those who apposes me. so no don't think anyone can be a satanist because i am willing to learn everything about satanism but i still just want to be me without the label of satanism
HelenMD Moderator
Posts: 261
(7/31/03 2:36 pm) Reply
Dearest Dragon
I think this has been dealt with before.
It's not about being The Best. It's about being the best you can be. A bit of competition is good but I wouldn't say I was a very competitive person and I am very willing to accept that no matter how good I am at something there will probably always be someone out there who is better at it than me. It's about fulfilling your potential. I think you still seem to think that it's all about acquiring more and more and stepping over others to get it. It can be a bit of that if the satanist in question regards that as his/her chosen path but for me it's about not letting anything stand in the way of what I want. And what I want isn't normally 'stuff' and rarely involves anyone around me suffering. Like at the moment I'm working towards a better relationship with my mother but it is involving me saying a lot of unpleasant things to her because we need to get things in the open. What stands in my way is a sense of guilt for being nasty, and a socially imposed sense of it being wrong to speak to your mother in such a fashion. But I'm not letting this stand in the way of me getting what I want - a better relationship with her - even though it involves me telling her a few home truths which will hurt her feelings.
I maintain that your view of satanism is far too simplistic.
Re: Dearest Dragon
"It's not about being The Best. It's about being the best you can be. A bit of competition is good"
Well said! This is what elitism really means - not being pretentious, just being the best you can be. Which usually means being better than the common people around you. And competition is always good.
Just try to be the best at whatever you do. Like Muhammad Ali said "If I'd been a binman, I would have been the fastest, meanest damn binman in the world." Or something like that.
As to the original question, of course I think Satanists are born not made. It's simply the type of person you are. And people don't change that much. You're either a Satanist or you're not. We are the Alien Elite.
BTW hello, this is my first post here. I've been watching for a while, and I've posted on the other site before (international).
Re: Dearest Dragon
I agree with you about not being pretentious. That is after all a satanic sin according to LaVey or it goes against a rule of the earth or some such silliness.
Yes I agree that its not be the best and stomp everyone else into the ground along the way. This is where Chris Cranmer and I share a strong common bond. He coined the term 'social satanist' (my pagan friends use the term 'fluffy satanist') meaning a satanist putting himself first but also having respect for others.
What I don't agree with is your reference to 'the alien elite'. I keep meaning to respond to one of your posts on the other board but I'm always too busy. Your post smacks of CoS hierarchical sentiment which frankly turns my stomach. I believe the SS had similar sentiments themselves.
I think you'll find that most people here are actually anti-elitist in the sense that you mean. I may think myself better than some people but I also know they have purpose and are useful to me.
Please don't get me wrong, you are welcome here and your opinions matter to us. It is always good to have conflicting views. Just thought I'd get my feelings out in the open at the outset.
Magistrate Ellaway
Magistrate Ellaway
'Jesus saves but satan catches the rebound, he shoots, he SCORES!'
Magistrate Society Of The Onyx Star
www.societyonyxstar.org
" I may think myself better than some people but I also know they have purpose and are useful to me."
These are my feelings exactly. That is the sense in which I meant 'Alien Elite' and I was under the impression that is what the CoS meant. Is there some other meaning I was unaware of?
Also, thank you for your polite reply. I know it is sometimes difficult to remain courteous and in good humour when there is an ideological difference in discussion.
Re: Dearest Dragon
ok my post wasn't really very good, my point is i would rather help others before myself. others my think foolish but i don't. i just enjoy helping others and appreciating nature, call me a hippy i still see the importance of satanic energy but also for every other energy that exists in the cosmos
By helping others and enjoying it you get satisfaction right? So the more you're helping others the more gratification you get. Am I right?
Therefore is selflesness really such a selfless act?
The answer to this question comes from yet another question. How far are you willing to go? Think about it.
Magistrate Ellaway
'Jesus saves but satan catches the rebound, he shoots, he SCORES!'
Magistrate Society Of The Onyx Star
www.societyonyxstar.org
AMLS Registered User
Posts: 6
(8/28/03 6:22 pm) Reply
selflessness
being selfless to get satisfaction is what i've been saying for ages..........
HelenMD Moderator
Posts: 279
(8/30/03 1:57 am) Reply
Re: selflessness
At the risk of sounding very pedantic I would have to say - can an act be truly selfless if it gives you personal satisfaction? If personal satisfaction is the reason you do it, surely then it is a selfish act.?
AMLS Registered User
Posts: 7
(8/30/03 2:19 pm) Reply
Re: selflessness
that of course means there is no such thing as selflessness, and all acts are selfish.
HelenMD Moderator
Posts: 280
(8/31/03 1:24 am) Reply
selfishness
Yes it seems like an unnatural conclusion to arrive at but I can't think of anything which would be purely selfless.
I think all acts are selfish but 'selfish' is a negative word. It implies that someone must get hurt or trampled on in the process and we think nothing good can come of selfishness. But if I do nice things for people because it gives me pleasure then my selfishness was good for me to indulge because it resulted in satisfaction not just for me but for those I helped.
If someone can think of a truly selfless act then please post it up because I'm willing to learn if I'm wrong.
As usual I blame our culture which is imbued with Victorian Christianity, "put all others before yourself". We think it's wrong to ut ourselves first. But I'm a firm believer that if you are not sorted out in your head then you are no use to anyone, so you must always be concerned with what is best for you.
AMLS Registered User
Posts: 8
(8/31/03 2:30 pm) Reply
re: selfishness
my personal belief is: everyone is selfish.
as usual, christianity trys to deny man's true (selfish) nature, and has buried itself into modern society.
this gives rise to the belief that being selfish is a negative thing and (as HelenMD said) that to be selfish means other people have to suffer in some way.
this is not true, for there are only 2 reasons anyone ever does anything:
1.they choose of their own free will, and want to do it.
this means that they get a certain satisifaction out of it and are therefore being selfish.
2.they are forced against their will to do it. in which case, they may be selfless, but since they have been forced into it: they would not have done it by themselves (this implys free will)
so, in conclusion: anything done of free will is selfish.
Selflessness
If the outcome of an act is that someone stands to gain more than the actor, is that a selfless act?
Surely a truly selfless act is one in which you would gain absolutely nothing.
Is it a selfless act to die for someone else or is it done because the actor wants to save themselves the torture of not being able to live with himself if the person he didn't save was to die or suffer? Is that selflessness or the most extreme example of good things resulting from a selfish act?
AMLS Registered User
Posts: 9
(9/1/03 3:56 pm) Reply
Re: Selflessness
i would say the most extreme example of good things coming from a selfish act.
(yes, i know this is very un-satanic but......) personally, there are people i would die for, because i couldn't live knowing that they are in pain and i can prevent it. so it is selfish really.
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